Is altitude a problem?

   / Is altitude a problem? #11  
Right, same goes for his outboard motor, lawn mower, weed wacker, generator, automobile, truck, lungs, etc....
 
   / Is altitude a problem? #12  
Maybe I should re-read the entire thread, but I'll take a guess at the confusion [though I think was discussed before].

At sea level, you only have roughly 30"Hg [14.7psi]. At 30000ft, you only have about 20%, in other words the air will be much less dense, so the naturally aspirated engine will not get the same internal pressures and temperatures for optimal combustion.

I think everyone follows that, but where it becomes confusion: at some point [I think also mentioned earlier] a given engine; espcially diesel with no spark to initiate combustion, simply will not run. Until then, it will have less and less performance. This will be slightly different for each engine. Also, neither the pressure curve, nor [I guessing here] the engine response to it is a truely linear; in other words there is no simple factor to multiply and get the correction. However [again, I'm guessing], each manufacture likely takes their performance data, selects a range [maybe 0 to 10K ft; maybe 5K; maybe 15K], and makes a close approximation for a correction factor.

For the purposes here, knowing that there is a loss and knowing that a charger will make up most of it is likely the important thing [can't beat the ol at home testing either!]. Then whether you choose a 3 or 4% correction, well trust the manufacture info or your gut is the best I can think of.

Uh....clear as mud....and I was trying to clarify. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Well, maybe, others read my babble as more informative than I do. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / Is altitude a problem? #13  
Wow....I must type slow....actually, had to find a snack. Oh, well, looks like the confusion was figured out with much less babble than I had! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Hey, maybe I added more so we can discuss this further! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Is altitude a problem? #14  
Heck, given that my first post was darn close and my second post was calculated correctly, I'm just happy that I'm not as dumb as I look.

But I sure wouldn't want to give up 25+% of the HP I paid for.
 
   / Is altitude a problem?
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Wow, you all jumped on that one, and confirmed what the JD dealer was saying. Now I have to move up in size. It's not what I wanted to hear, but it's reality. Thank you.
Tab132
 
   / Is altitude a problem? #16  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Diesels are also more difficult to start at these elevations due to lack of compression pressure required to heat the air to ignite the fuel charge when they are cold so be sure to have a glow plug diesel engine.</font>
It depends on the tractor. Most turbo tractor have the same compression as their non-turbo counterpart. My MF 1440 is one example of this and I would bet that the new model JD with turbo's are the same. I will say that most if not all auto engines that are set up for turbos do have lower compression. The compression issue is a valid concern. If you do look at turbo tractors, that is one thing to make sure of before you buy. )</font>


Jerry, I think you misunderstood what I said.

It does not make any difference what make or brand of diesel engine, they ALL have less combustion chamber heat creation from the compression of air at altitude, which makes all of them more difficult to start since all diesel compression ignition engines rely on the temperature of the compressed air in their combustion chambers to ignite the diesel fuel (most higher elevations also use Diesel #1 which makes it even more difficult to ignite too).

All compression ignition diesel engines are more difficult to start at higher elevations than at sea level simply because there is less air compressed into the combustion chamber and therefore less temperature.

30% less air means 30% less power and also 30% less chance of starting a cold diesel engine.
 
   / Is altitude a problem? #17  
The MF 1440 is one option (what Jerry's got).

Deere's models are the 3520 and 3720. Both are the same size, the 3720 has a hotter tuned fuel system and intercooler to really pump out the ponies...
 
   / Is altitude a problem? #18  
Doesn't matter, they all will be more difficult to start at altitude when cold.
 
   / Is altitude a problem? #19  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Doesn't matter, they all will be more difficult to start at altitude when cold. )</font>

Sorry to disagree, but I've been running my JD 790 (non-turbo) for several years at 8000' and starting is NOT a problem down to about 0 degrees F. I don't use any starting fluids, but keep the battery/connections in good shape and use appropriate weight of oil for the season. We also use the tractor regularly thru the winter and it is stored outside. I agree about 25-30% power loss of all natually aspirated engines at this altitude.

However I seem to be a little slower to start these days.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
 
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