Backhoe Jinma HW04 Framemount Backhoe For Jinma 454 issues

[KyleG]

Ok we are getting close. First here is a picture of the brackets I showed before actually on the tractor

As for the hydraulic PTO pump adaptor, China sent us another one since the 354 adaptor was too small on both sides (pump, and for the PTO) Only hangup we have is that the hydraulic hose/fitting hits the reservoir and we are having a fitting manufactured for us locally. see the adaptor mounted to the tractor. Hope to get that fixed in the next week.

As for the seat, we got a rail from Keno tractors (which they didn't have a tractor to try this on) and to be honest didn't like the configuration it was meant to have the tractor seat and the backhoe seat mounted on the bracket they sent that would mount to the tractor, it would also have still been to high. We made our own that is attached to the backhoe so it comes off when the backhoe is removed like many of them. It's a little tight to do and all things considered we probably would have lengthened the backhoe frame by 3inches if we were to do it all again. That would get rid of the pto adaptor issue and would have made everything not quite as tight. I'm only 5'5" so everything will work fine for me but if you had a 6 foot guy on with long legs you have to move the tractor seat forward and the backhoe seat back.

Final adaptations we will make will be to lower the seat 1.5" from where it's pictured below and then we are making new control levers to bring them back 5-6" so that the controls are a more comfortable reach.

 

[mattman]

You are a better man than I am. After finding out the backhoe would not mount up and the pump adapter not fitting and the seat location not being anywhere close to right, the backhoe and related parts would be own it's way back to where ever it came from. You should not have to make something fit, when the factory is suppose to do all the fitment test way before they start selling stuff to the public. Good luck on getting everything lined out.

 

[Affordable]

You also could have just put a PTO pump on the tractor.Some dealers order tractors backhoe ready which already has the pump adaptors and shaft on them,some don't.The ones that are not require a little work to get them ready.We had so much trouble with the chinese backhoes that I only sold about 8-of them the first year we were in business,I switched then to a better Korean made backhoe. Hopefully you get it up and going soon.


Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales

 

[3RRL]

Kyle,
First off I want to commend you on all the fabricating you've done to get that hoe to fit.
It looks to me that Jinma has not had many frame mounted backhoes for the 454? You would think they'd be a little closer to the fitting part. I have a Kama 554 like Brad but an Italian 8' Nardi backhoe. It's a 3pt hoe and I made my own subframe for it to fit the Kama.

I have a question about the frame mount hoe ... why did you decide to go with that rather than the 3pt hoe?
Is there an advantage to frame mount over a subframe mounted 3pt backhoe? Are you ever going to take it off for other rear implement attachments? It looks like that would be quite a chore? I also like Brad's suggestion of that flip-over seat instead of having 2 seats so closely mounted together. I could see the rear one getting in the way except when using the backhoe of course.

One other thing I'm not 100% clear on is the PTO pump.
If your backhoe has it's own pump and reservoir, does your pump not slip over the PTO shaft? It looks like it requires the use of the rear mounted hydraulic pump which bolts to the rear of the tractor. So what do you do there? Leave that pump bolted to the tractor and have quick disconnects from that pump to run the backhoe? I guess I'm not familiar with that set up. Mine has it's own PTO pump too and is self contained with it's own reservoir etc, but my pump slips over the PTO shaft.
Just curious...
Rob-

 

[KyleG]

why did you decide to go with that rather than the 3pt hoe?
Is there an advantage to frame mount over a subframe mounted 3pt backhoe? Are you ever going to take it off for other rear implement attachments? It looks like that would be quite a chore?

One other thing I'm not 100% clear on is the PTO pump.
If your backhoe has it's own pump and reservoir, does your pump not slip over the PTO shaft? It looks like it requires the use of the rear mounted hydraulic pump which bolts to the rear of the tractor. So what do you do there? Leave that pump bolted to the tractor and have quick disconnects from that pump to run the backhoe?
Rob-

I'll try to answer your questions here. I demanded a frame mount backhoe. Unfortunately my dealer and I did not know that these were the first Jinma 454 framemounts (hence all the problems, but I agree with the other comments Jinma should have done better to test this before letting it out the door, Keno is taking care of me for doing the fabrication, financially and providing the feedback to Jinma directly as Eric at Keno works with them alot.)

In my view (and I went with Keno because they agreed) 3-point backhoes are more dangerous. If you have a solid frame for the hoe (it's built right) you are locked into the tractor and your weight distribution is better making it less likely to tip or break. I have seen Jinma framemounts from a few years ago where the frame was weak (on 354's and smaller and some broke) and my frame looks more solid than those. So I think I'm ok from that end.

Yes I do plan to take it off to attach other implements. It should take less than an hour. I'll have to back into position put a jack under the frame (towards the back by the controls) and remove the plate bolts I showed pics of, lower the back. Put jack under the front attachment, remove the bolt that attaches up front and lower. Remove the pump and adaptor (3 bolts) and reattach the cover (I don't believe you could leave it attached as there is no shutoff, it would always be running the hydraulic pump if you left it on.) Drive forward, and that should be done so I can attach another implement.

To answer the other questions, yes on the Jinma you could use a traditional PTO pump that slips over the PTO shaft, in my case I don't use that one, as Jinma supplies a PTO attachment that uses a different PTO connection, which you saw in the picture with the adaptor on the tractor. That adaptor isn't just bolted on the back, it's drives the Hydraulic pump through that adaptor with a female/female adaptor. It's hidden under the cover (there are pictures with the cover off in my original post), and I haven't tested this theory but I believe it runs any time you have the standard PTO running (not all the time.) Hope that helps.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Nice work Kyle.
I think your frame mount can still be considered a sub-frame. You might be able to do a considerable amount of maneuvering into position by manipulating the boom and outriggers of the BH. That's what I'm hoping for with mine anyhow.

What are the specs on that backhoe by the way?

Maybe you can bend a dogleg in the joysticks to bring them in a little closer. I wouldn't get too severe to risk goofing up the lever motion. Bend the outrigger levers up to let you move the seat forward? The current position looks a little scary to me.

I did finally make some progress on mine - I mounted the rebuilt control valves, hydraulified the outriggers, plumbed everything to the tractor, and made up the word hydraulified.
I still need to make my subframe.

Brad

 

[3RRL]

Thanks for the explanation Kyle,
I figured your reasoning might be for that. However, I've found with a sturdy subframe, my hoe is as solid as a rock now. The only thing I see would be of considerable value is the proximity of hoe to tractor. I believe having it sit as close to the tractor adds to the over all stability of both. The other issue is ground clearance. If both a 3pt and frame mounted hoe sit the same height from the ground up, the one closer to the tractor will have a little more maneuverability over dips and swales and less likely to get hung up.

You might be able to do a considerable amount of maneuvering into position by manipulating the boom and outriggers of the BH. That's what I'm hoping for with mine anyhow.

This is true but be sure your hoses are long enough to allow attachment so that you can work the hydraulics on the hoe to do this.
At one time my return to sump hose got a tear in it and I cut the bad section off, making it about a foot shorter is all. Now it is a lot harder for me to get the PTO pump on with enough comfortable room between the hoe, my sub frame and the rear of the tractor. I need to change that hose to give me a little more room so I can connect it up and use the hydraulics on the hoe for positioning.
That is not to say I can't do it all, I can, but I've left myself so little space it's stupid. So leave enough room to hook up those hydraulic hoses and work the hoe.

 

[Affordable]

Well it looks like you are getting close to being able to use the backhoe soon,glad Keno worked with you to help resolve the problems,hopefully you will be happy with the operation of it once its completed.Here is a pic of our TomCat korean backhoes you can see the distance of the seat and controls,I have personally dug for about 4-5 hours at a time with this backhoe and it was pretty comfortable


Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Tommy, those are some slick looking curved boom backhoes!

 

[Affordable]

They are so sweet and smooth,When I was selling the LITW I thought they were good, however once I found these and operated one I was sold and been selling them ever since, for anyone considering a 3-point backhoe they need to take a good at these,I'm trying to get some dealers up in Washington state to take them on too to save some shipping cost to my northern customers.Everybody that has bought one has Loved them.

Thanks for the comments

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company