John Deere 410 Backhoe Won稚 Move Forward

[Dale2016]

I have a problem with my john deere 410 backhoe. It will move reverse but not forward. I have checked the linkage and the pin and it was all ok. I checked the low pressure PSI for the forward and reverse with a gauge. Reverse was 100 PSI and forward was 40 PSI. I checked the sump screen and it had a little dirt on the end but was ok. I took a part and checked the clutch control valves and nothing was stuck or sticking. I change the piston & spring because it had a couple score marks on it and changed the pin fasteners and springs in the clutch control valve. Still did not help so I ended up splitting the backhoe and found out that the reverser clutch plates where burn up and the clutch disk where warped so I change all them and the sleeve rings. The piston seem to look good so I just change the piston seal. Everything else seem to look good to me in there so I put everything back together and put new filters and hydraulic fluid in and fired it up and tried forward and it still will not move forward so I checked the PSI again. The reverse was still about 100 PSI and forward was about 60 PSI. I know it should be a round 165 so I am losing pressure somewhere. Does anyone have any suggestion what to look at now. I will probably have to split the backhoe again but looking for advice on what to look for now or anything that I could check before I split the backhoe again. I have never did one before but it was not too bad just not sure what to look for now. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[jb1390]

So you did replace the o rings on the clutch apply piston? It's also a good idea to clean up the o-ring mating surface from any contamination, since it can get chewed up from sliding over a rough surface. It's a good idea to bench test the clutch apply circuits with air and make sure they seal before buttoning everything back up.

You can take the control valve off the side of the tractor and apply air pressure to the tubes there using a rubber tipped blow gun. If they hold pressure, then something is up in the valve. If there is a leak you'll be able to hear it pretty clearly.

 

[Dale2016]

Thanks for the reply jb1390
Do I have to drain all of the hydraulic fluid out of the backhoe when I take off the control valve on the side to do the air pressure test to the tubes and do you apply air to each tube one at a time and listen for a leak.

 

[jb1390]

Thanks for the reply jb1390
Do I have to drain all of the hydraulic fluid out of the backhoe when I take off the control valve on the side to do the air pressure test to the tubes and do you apply air to each tube one at a time and listen for a leak.

As I recall, I think you'll need to drain most of the oil. Then you'll apply air one at a time to the clutch apply lines - I think these are the larger 2 oil lines that connect to the valve body. Do you have a repair manual for your machine?

 

[Dale2016]

I have a technical manual coming in the mail and I hope it will show me what I need to know.

 

[Dale2016]

I did an air test to the pipe for the forward clutch drum and I heard and felt air coming from behind the drum not out the piston so I pulled the drum out again and notes the clutch drum sleeve had ware marks in the sleeve from the two rings so I think it was leaking air out the shaft. I put in a new sleeve ‘all bushings and all new oil rings. I did another air test and the piston was moving in and out ok could not hear any air leaking or very little now. I figured air is probable thinner then oil so you might hear a little. Everything else looked ok. Put it all back together and I checked the psi pressure on the bottom port 150 psi. and the forward port was 135 to 150 psi if you give to a little more gas. It moved in reverse ok but forward was slow and only first and second gear it would move slow ‘It seems like it is slipping or something. I tried to go up a little grade and it stop moving. Any suggestions what to look for now or I might have to split it again. I also put some shims behind the two spring to see if I could get the psi pressure up a little more but it did not help and the forward clutch plate and disk plates are brand new.
Any suggestions, Thanks

 

[jb1390]

I did an air test to the pipe for the forward clutch drum and I heard and felt air coming from behind the drum not out the piston so I pulled the drum out again and notes the clutch drum sleeve had ware marks in the sleeve from the two rings so I think it was leaking air out the shaft. I put in a new sleeve ?all bushings and all new oil rings. I did another air test and the piston was moving in and out ok could not hear any air leaking or very little now. I figured air is probable thinner then oil so you might hear a little. Everything else looked ok. Put it all back together and I checked the psi pressure on the bottom port 150 psi. and the forward port was 135 to 150 psi if you give to a little more gas. It moved in reverse ok but forward was slow and only first and second gear it would move slow ?It seems like it is slipping or something. I tried to go up a little grade and it stop moving. Any suggestions what to look for now or I might have to split it again. I also put some shims behind the two spring to see if I could get the psi pressure up a little more but it did not help and the forward clutch plate and disk plates are brand new.
Any suggestions, Thanks

From what I recall when I did mine a few years ago, I did not hear any air leaking at all, besides maybe a little at the rubber blowgun tip. I had coated the o-rings with oil to help them seal.

You said you replaced the forward clutch pack? And steels? Did you also replace the large rubber o-ring that seals the piston for clutch apply? It seems that if you have decent pressure at that port, it is not leaking past much - though the increase in pressure when you increase throttle would indicate it's leaking some.

Is it possible you missed a clutch plate when reassembling - causing a thinner stack?

 

[Dale2016]

Thanks for your reply
Yes I changed both rubber O-ring seals in the piston and all new clutch disk and plates 3 of each I took out 3 and put back in 3 and the book calls for 3' Not sure what would cause it to slip or not grab or lock up right.
Any other suggestion to look at. Thanks

 

[Dale2016]

Any other suggestion before I rip this sucker a part for the third time now. Getting tired of working on it and would like to get this thing fixed so I can use it. Is there anything I can look at or test and adjust before I think of taking it apart again. Thanks

 

[Dale2016]

Any Suggestions before I rip it a part again' I guess I have to figure it out myself' Out getting any response here on this forum