John Deere Technical Manual Issue

[texstrk426]

I have owned my John Deere 5105 for years and now am having a starting problem. Thanks to this forum and some other sources I have put together some information to help me diagnose the problem. I was looking for a schematic diagram of the starting system and learned that it is only available from John Deere as a technical publication for $410! That is more than the price of a service call from my dealer plus some. Evidently John Deere intends to operate their publications department as a profit center not as a service to their customers. I don't appreciate being treated like this by the company I spent well over $22K buying this unit new from a dealer. I suspect that others have the same complaint on their John Deere tractor publications too. However, I do not expect John Deere to change their policy on this matter. This is a poor way to treat customers.

 

[Quebecguy]

Is this what you need? What is the serial number of your tractor?

 

[texstrk426]

View attachment 521571
Is this what you need? What is the serial number of your tractor?

Quebecguy;

Yes indeed that is what I was looking for. I wound up listening for the injector solenoid click when the key is turned on and hear it consistently. I took the cowl assembly apart far enough to see the key switch and the turn signal switch. I removed the turn signal knob and light switch knob and then took them loose from the cowl panel. There was a large mouse nest on top of the bracket the steering column is fastened to. I cleaned all of that out and repaired some wires (unused ones) that went to a pigtail connector set branch. I found no other wires damaged by the mice. I went through the fuel bleed procedure and finally managed to get the tractor to start. It seems labored and when I tried to use it with the mowing attachment it could not handle the load and began to struggle even keeping a decent RPM with the throttle all the way to the floor. I turned off the mower and PTO and limped back to the barn and left it outside in case I need to work on it again. It is close enough to the barn that I can run my compressor air hose to it or an electric extension cord.

There was black smoke when I first started it, but it cleared after a bit. I left it running while I went in the house and back before making the trial run with the mower. By the time I finished about a 75ft. stretch mowing it was struggling to maintain RPM. After I reached the barn about another 200ft. away the radiator had gotten quite hot to the touch - don't know it if is excessive or not.

I had just replaced first the battery (it was dead after 11 years of service). Then fuel was added. It had worked well a day before doing some mowing. I started it and mowed a considerable area and began to notice that the tractor seemed to be struggling and sounded like it had a knock or like it was under severe load and about to quit running. That was when I had stopped it to let it cool down. Later it would not start. I pulled the fuel filter RE60021 and noticed considerable crud in the bottom, so I bought a new one at the dealer. After installation of the filter it would not start. I finally located all the troubleshooting of starting problems and suspected fuel system needed to be bled, so I did that today and that was when I managed to get it to start again. Then the power and RPM issue came back as noted in my first paragraph.

Any ideas?

 

[Quebecguy]

Sorry, if your tractor is like mine that first diagram is incomplete. I've attached a second one showing the Cold Advance Solenoid circuit. That has nothing to do with your current problem though. Did you change the other fuel filter? Part Number RE220719 is located between the tank and the RE60021 filter. On my tractor it is found near the rear of the valve cover.

 

[texstrk426]

Quebecguy;

Thanks for that extra information. I will have to drive into town to get the part, RE220719, but it is certainly worth a try. I did notice that the RE60021 filter is listed as "final fuel filter". There may be another filter in the fuel tank too. I need to check.

 

[Quebecguy]

I think there are only two fuel filters. The RE220719 is in line between the tank and the other filter.

 

[texstrk426]

I will check later on the location of the filter. The valve cover currently has a larger collection of dust and debris on it and so locating the filter in question will be problematic. Fortunately I parked the tractor near the barn and can use my air compressor to blow most of the debris away in order to locate it. Right now it is too hot to go out and do that.

Thanks very much!

 

[Spanner]

$400 is a not-inconsiderable amount of money. However you generally get that 'back' the first time you use it and save the cost of a dealer site visit. From there onwards it's an investment paying you interest.

Also you can save $200 and buy the CD Rom disc version which is all the same info and you can print the pages as you need them and save your book from getting grubby in the workshop. CD's are half the price of books and are burned to order. I believe the Manuals are printed and bound to order also which is why they are pricey.

CD's are convenient and space-saving but I still like having pages to turn in my fingers.

However, there is no section in the manual dealing with "rodent control". That's 'housekeeping' and comes in the 'Life manual' your parents 'gave' you.

The little in-line strainer filter near the fuel tank outlet does most of the filtering and you can usually replace it 3 times before you need to change the main filter at the engine. The Parts Catalogue will show them both and it's on-line for free. No in-tank strainer from memory because the outlet is at the bottom corner and the shape of the tank precludes an upwards suction pipe.

I think if you pay for the manual you will value it and look after it. There are numerous threads on here with the comment "I lost the manual that came with my tractor" or words to that effect. Free manuals, perceived as having little/no value and easily misplaced. I guarantee that having paid $400 for a book you will know where it is, every day you own it.

Checked your air filter housing for mice?

 

[texstrk426]

Spanner;
As it turned out I just received a call from a technician from my dealer where I had tentatively scheduled a service call. I described the symptoms to him and what I had done (which included disconnecting the air cleaner while it was struggling to stay running) and between the two of us I have decided to undertake checking the outflow of the tank. I strongly suspect the first filter at the output of the tank is stopped up with crud. This all started after I had allowed the fuel to get down to just under 1/4 of a tank on the gauge and the tank was refilled. There must have been sediment in the bottom of the tank that got stirred up. Another factor was that I had been mowing on some very rough terrain that sloshed the fuel around in the tank when it was low.

Since I have two empty fuel containers I can use those to catch any fuel that comes out of the tank. The RE60021 filter is labeled as being the last fuel filter, so there is one more. I do have my Operator's Manual and I always save all papers associated with maintenance. I had to replace the fuel gauge sending unit a couple of years ago. There is a slight leak at the spot where the gauge sending unit was installed. I am going to try cleaning out the tank and get a new first filter. I may go ahead and get a new section of fuel line too and put all new parts in and re-bleed the fuel lines at the final fuel filter and the injector pump one more time. I think it will solve the problem. I will report back on the results. I will be working the issue Thursday and Friday. I am not as fast as I used to be at 74, so it takes me longer to do anything I undertake. I still like to do my own repairs.

Thanks for the mention of the CD version of the tractor technical manual. I used to always buy service manuals for all my cars except for my last one which is a 2007 Azera and too difficult for me to work on due to my physical limitations now. It goes to the dealer for service. I cannot stay bent over the low engine compartment to work on it anymore. The tractor is different. I can stand up and work on it or lie down underneath without too much difficulty.

Forums like this are a real help to those of us who do not work on our tractors frequently. For the most part this tractor has been pretty trouble free, so I can't complain about that aspect of ownership. It has been an excellent quality product. Life in the country would not be very friendly without it.

 

[JD5210]

Try selectmanuals.com for a tech manual $29.95.

There is a vent hose, behind the tank that could be plugged. Quick test is to loosen the fuel tank cap.

If you have not already found this JD site, you can look up the RE220719 Strainer to see where it is at.

John Deere - Parts Catalog