Loader L5460 FEL Hydraulic Very Slow - Problem Inconsistent

[Thirsty]

I am looking for whatever help I can get. I have done searches and either come up empty or with too many hits to read them all.

I have a L5460 with a FEL and a Backhoe. After finishing with my brush hog work, I removed the three-point hitch and installed the backhoe.

Day 1 Moving gravel and leveling ground for about 5 hours no problems

Day 2 After about 30 minutes of loosening up the ground with the backhoe, I started moving dirt with the FEL. About 10 minutes into the dirt moving phase, I noticed the FEL was not moving as I would expect, it was moving very slow.

Initially I thought I broke a hose so I shut down the tractor. The engine stopped immediately, like it was under a lot off load when I turned it off (I had no hands on the controls when I turned it off). Normally the engine will stop when the key is turned off but it doesn稚 normally stop abruptly.

I looked around the tractor and found hydraulic fluid leaking (a drip or two every second) from the backhoe controls. The backhoe has bypass hoses for when it is removed to allow hydraulic fluid to dump back into the tractor reservoir. So, after finding the leak, I bypassed the backhoe. I checked the hydraulic fluid level and it was normal.

While I could not figure out why or how a very small leak on the backhoe could affect the FEL, I decided to try it again. I restarted the tractor. It started normally as expected.

Less than a minute later, the FEL started moving very slow both up and down as before, the bucket seemed to curl normally.

Again, when I turned the tractor off, it stopped very quickly like it was under heavy load. (I assume very high hydraulic pressure)

The tractor is 10 months old with a couple of hundred hours on it. It is still under warranty.

I hauled it too the dealer. They said an inexperienced mechanic was able to reproduce a problem but did not describe it well. They have since brought in another, more experienced mechanic from another location. He has not been able to reproduce the problem.
They have had it for 4 days now. (I know, not much time)

Here is a YouTube video of another person with what appears to be exactly the same issues I was experiencing. I provided this to the dealer.: hydraulic problem on my tractor front end loader - YouTube

Thoughts? I am most interested in the FEL problem, not the inexperienced mechanic. Maybe another time. LOL

Thank you for any ideas or potential solutions you may have.

 

[Fallon]

Same thing happened to my brand new L4060. Unloaded an impliment from the truck fine, then the loader stopped working reliably. Sometimes it would work, sometimes it would barely budge. You could hear the engine laboring.

My dealer sent out a guy who couldn't figure it out. They hauled it back & fixed it. Ended up being the feedback rod on the 3pt apparently. When I lifted up the 3pt it bottomed out but left the valve still trying to lift things. Recalibrating the feedback rod seems to have fixed it.

Although thinking about it now I'm a little confused. The loader valve is usually first & 3pt usually last in the power beyond loop. The upstream valve has priority & the downstream just gets starved. So that would explain the engine lugging, but not the loader not working. Wonder if the 3pt is plumbed in first, unlike most others. Would explain everything.

At any rate, lower the 3pt a bit & see if things clear up. Will identify the issue. The other common problem is a quick disconnect not being seated correctly, or plugged up. That usually just affects 1 function though.

 

[Thirsty]

Thanks for reading through my long post. Looks like your issue alligns with mine.

 

[MHarryE]

I was going to say 3 point feedback but your not having the 3 point installed blew that theory. I had a tractor that went back to the dealer for some work. When it returned the loader worked exactly like you said. When I lowered the 3 point the loader started working fine so I went to the feedback, found it out of adjustment, corrected this and loader problem resolved.

 

[MHarryE]

My first thought was 3 point feedback but you have 3 point removed which blows that theory. I had a tractor returned to the dealer and when it returned the loader functioned exactly the way you said. When I lowered the 3 point part way the loader worked fine. I discovered they sent it back with the 3 point feedback out of adjustment. I corrected it and the tractor worked fine for the rest of its life with me.

 

[JWR]

Couple of comments which may or may not be of any help: 1) I assume the "3pt feedback" you refer to means Draft control. 99% of us, who never plow with the tractor, would all be better off if the Draft control was disabled or bypassed. MF actually sells a kit for doing that mechanically (which I installed on my MF2660.) Squirrelly things happen when Draft control becomes invoked or worse yet unknowingly invoked.

2) Your loader valve has two spools -- one for the loader frame up and down and the other for bucket curl. Maybe the loader frame side of the loader valve got crud in it when you had the lines apart, pulled the backhoe, etc. No idea why filters wouldn't have caught it but may be worth a look. Can you flush those things ? Engine seeming to be under load at shutdown -- hmmmm. That muddys the water. Some obstruction at/near your main hydraulic pump ?

3) One more thought: Some of the larger Kubotas (and I hear New Hollands also) have hydraulic diverter valves that partially overcome the inherent "one track mind" of open center hydraulics. Making the system act as if you have 2 pumps and two sources of hyd pressure even though there is really only one. Conceivably that might result in your loader frame being impeded while the bucket still curled OK. [I assume you are not letting gravity curl downward confuse the issue.]

Seems like you have a very interesting overall issue. Please keep us informed.

 

[Fallon]

Couple of comments which may or may not be of any help: 1) I assume the "3pt feedback" you refer to means Draft control.

No, there is a feedback rod that is attached to the 3pt & the 3pt lever. When the 2 are in parity, the 3pt valve is shut. When they aren't in parity, the 3pt valve is letting fluid in or out to get the 3pt to lift/drop to match the control lever. Nothing to do with draft control.

 

[Grandad4]

No, there is a feedback rod that is attached to the 3pt & the 3pt lever. When the 2 are in parity, the 3pt valve is shut. When they aren't in parity, the 3pt valve is letting fluid in or out to get the 3pt to lift/drop to match the control lever. Nothing to do with draft control.

I probably should avoid getting in over my head here, but this mechanism wouldn't be removed when the upper and lower 3 point arms come off to mount the backhoe, would it? If not, having it mis-adjusted could indeed be part or all of the OP's issue.

Wondering if another possibility could be the position control drop speed adjustment being fully closed.

 

[Fallon]

I probably should avoid getting in over my head here, but this mechanism wouldn't be removed when the upper and lower 3 point arms come off to mount the backhoe, would it? If not, having it mis-adjusted could indeed be part or all of the OP's issue.

Wondering if another possibility could be the position control drop speed adjustment being fully closed.

Not sure what extent the 3pt removal goes. I'm guessing just removing the lift arms, sway brackets & toplink. Pretty sure that woud leave the lift cylinders & feedback rod in place.

 

[Thirsty]

Three point hitch removal involves the removal of the top link, removal of the stabilizer arms, and removal of the lower links. The lift rods are left in place and just hang straight down.

There is a hydraulic hose that plugs into the backhoe when it is installed, when it is removed, the hose plugs into the rear of the tractor.

I would take pictures but the tractor is at the dealer.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Thanks for your help.