Let neighbor use my brand new road

[Sigarms]

Wayne, that is some nice looking land where ever you took those pictures!

The devil side of me wants to ask per the road you're commenting on, if no one is to maintain it, whose job is it to pick up the nails or any other items that may cause flats?

 

[Superduper]

Based on what I'm reading here, I wonder how long people can rent a house before claiming it's now theirs? I have know people who rented the same house well over 20 years.

mark

Renting will not qualify for adverse possession. A pre-existing agreement exists between landlord/tenant for use of the property for a fee. The agreement clearly defines ownership. Liability can fall on owners but since this is a business arrangement, there is always some amount of liability. The issue here is the granting of access without compensation, and without desire to undertake additional liability.

Of course, if you reside in San Francisco and you have rented for 20 years, and you fall within a certain age group, (60+ I believe), then you are granted protected status and you can, for all practical purposes, never be evicted, so long as you continue to pay rent. The stiff rent control laws in that city, among the most restrictive in the nation also governs how much rent can increase. Historically, it has been ridiculously low (... like 1.2%) annually so it would not be unusual for a very long term tenant to have extremely low rents compared to market rent: $300 for a similar property offered at $2000+. $300 today means that next year, your rent will increase to $303.60 based on the 1.2% example. As a landlord, you would never be allowed to raise the rent to market value so long as that tenant lives in your rental. I have heard many landlords claim that such restrictive rent control laws skews ownership rights so far towards tenants that tenants have virtually greater rights to the property than the landlord himself.

 

[WayneB]

Wayne, that is some nice looking land where ever you took those pictures!

The devil side of me wants to ask per the road you're commenting on, if no one is to maintain it, whose job is it to pick up the nails or any other items that may cause flats?

The pictures posted here are internet pictures showing old methods of plowing snow and that is it.

As for items in the discontinued road, well I have thought about it, but who would they blame and how much would that cost me and my family. Once I got over the fact of what the court imposed upon us I have adjusted and live with it. We do live in the country and it is extremely quite 95 percent of the time and if I am working outside I can still stop and take a pee without going into the house. Guess I am lucky after all!

 

[riptides]

So when you say it depends, perhaps it would be best if you can give an example of what you mean and how you feel such easement would not interfere with your free use of the property? Free use would mean that you can make any and all choices and uses of the property as you could, if the easement were not in existence.

I will not give you specific examples.

I am not familiar with your county or state laws.

I am not familiar with your zoning, plats, HOA, bylaws or other forms of legal community binding.

As you noted in your attempt at defining an easement, it depends on what it is, roadway, access, ingress, egress, right-of-way, utility, public, etc. etc.

Heck, it can even be visual, or scenic.

Best advise is to go spend some time at your counties court house, looking at title books, plats and zoning laws. Then go run it by a lawyer on what you plan to do, if you have doubts or questions.

Your suggesting an easement contrains you from free use of your property, I suggest it limits certain activities or actions. And careful examination of law (past and present) is required.

-Mike Z.

 

[LBrown59]

I've been down this path and everyone has brought up very good points. In absence of a road maintenance agreement the Cal Civil Code provides guidance, if you need the Code number I can look it up. Local fire and building codes can also have an impact. Here in SLO, a driveway serves a single parcel and depending upon length, grade, and fire hazard can be as narrow as 12 feet, and the required surface can vary accordingly. However, once it serves more than one parcel it becomes a road and must be at least 16 feet. Furthermore, a residence may have only one point of access.

Check your local codes, this stuff and get real sticky especially as the players change over time. If you need an agreement, I can provide a copy of ours.

Best of luck.

Wonder what the reason for that is?

 

[BTDT]

Wonder what the reason for that is?


My guess would be so that in case "They" come looking for you, you can't escape.

 

[kevincook]

Here is a link. As others have already suggested you should read the tale of a fellow Californian. It will probably take you a couple of hours but it is worth reading.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/14251-help-i-need-legal-advice.html

Kevin

 

[Superduper]

Here is a link. As others have already suggested you should read the tale of a fellow Californian. It will probably take you a couple of hours but it is worth reading.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/14251-help-i-need-legal-advice.html

Kevin

I know that I've been pushing hard on Stumpfield here to rescind any agreement to permit access to his property. Know also that I have a very poor opinion of attorneys. No, not lawyer bashing, just stating my opinion based upon decades of experience. Anyone taking the time to read the 48 page story should know that CA courts are not your friend. Before you get into a situation where you could lose all that you've worked for in your life, you really need to protect yourself like a bulldog. This may involve being un-neighborly-like or unfriendly, but then again, you are protecting the family jewells. The story definitely shows exactly what I was warning about, legal issues can get extremely convoluted, and it is possible to win the battle but lose the war. Civil issues are quite different than criminal issues and the big awards are always comes during the awards phase. The reason is that plaintiffs always claim damage. During the trial, there will be an assignment of blame and it could be 50%/50% or 99%/1%. In a convoluted legal dispute, it is virtually impossible to be 100% right. Somewhere someplace, there is going to be the perception that you also contributed to the problem. There is no telling. But unlike a criminal trial, being 1% to blame means that you were to blame and you are liable for legal fees. Of course, pain/suffering damage awards oftentimes just don't make sense. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself by taking some time to read the thread posted prior, especially if you live in the state of California, although I'm sure there are other states like this.

 

[mdbarb]

Well I skimmed thru the posts. It was a little painful. I am the mdbarb that several people refered to and reading that saga may help. I may even go back and read it someday.
You won't have to worry about adverse possesion if you pay your taxes.
You won't have to worry about prescriptive easement if you gave permission.
You will have to worry about liability, other people getting your combination etc
I had a very good relationship with my neighbor before the saga.
Unfortunately one must assume and plan for the worst.

BTW. There has been more activity on my property.
Including another lawsuit!
This time I feel I have it covered ten times over. But then theres that fickle justice system...
I'll probably fill everyone in on my original thread after the hearing in a couple of weeks. Instead of one movie this could be a weekly series!

 

[NewToy]

It's not hard but cost a lot of $$$. I spent a little over $20k on a grading contractor with the right equipment to cut my 1/3 mile of dirt road. Probably another $10k for gravel when I'm done with my water line. She has been living there for 7 years and always use the public road (not maintain by the county). Nobody wants to improve the public road. I don't mind letting her use my road and have the combo to my gate (I already gave it to all my neighbors below me for emergency short-cut exit in case there's a forest fire or something...)

Anyone have an example of this type of agreement? I really don't want to spend the money to hire a lawyer to write the agreement.

It will be much cheaper for some legal advice now than a potential lawsuit down the road. Right of ways once established are forever. Don't expose yourself to this headache or a potential injury lawsuit by being the nice guy. Our society is way to litigious not to consult an attorney for YOUR protection.

John