Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[un-quality]

Hello Fellows,

Long time reader, first time poster. Scored a BUSH HOG FL-50 from a used tractor and implement seller who has become a friend, for 200$. it was in horrible shape- the guy has probably 50 brand new box blades, 25 brand new brush hogs, and dozens of used implements from tillers, front end loaders, bat wings, tractors, even mini excavators at his home in Hardin, TX. Gets large lots from closing dealerships and at auctions- he had forgotten he had it (found it when taking picture of a big older JD disc and an antique tractor i was interested in). The bearings on the roller and drum were shot, to the point they had worn the center out of the shafts - I have them disassembled with plans to purchase new generic flange bearings and pop new centers, reweld and remachine them in my uncles shop- all the knives need to be replaced, but for now i will sharpen them (none are broken but all rusted badly)- I got all new bolts and locknuts for them (grade 8), because to get most of them off i will probably spin the bolt heads off or have to grind or torch them off. It has no belt cover. He threw in an almost new eurocardan driveshaft with slip clutch. So far i have completely disassembled the entire setup. The gearbox looked fantastic. I have found some basic diagrams/prints without dimensions on various part sites. I'm past attempting to find the correct dimensions and bearings- when i machine them i will just find the best value and most common close size bearings and go from there. we will check everything for balance while on the lathe- it's probably pretty close, as the rotor still has original paint, only the knives look bad. I tried it out as soon as i got it, and it was set entirely too low- i slapped it on my 1023e and run through a recently low mowed back pasture and it was scalping the ground. When I reassemble it i will ensure it to be set higher. If it cuts as well as i think it will (4 rows of 10 pairs of knives on the drum - 80 total blades @ only a 50" cut) it will be replacing my frontier 60" finisher for mowing around my grandmothers (approx 2 acres of yard), as well as my half acre yard.

Secondly, I have been using a IH 484 with a 5' Bush-hog ( I do not know what brand. the gearbox has no distinctive markings, it originally was a yellowish color (maybe allis chalmers? did cat ever make brush hogs?) It was used when we got the tractor.. 33 years ago. However it is indestructable. We often use it for mulching 3-4" tree limbs into compost.
I recently did a full cosmetic restore (Tore entire tractor down to transmission/motor, removed old paint, primed, and repainted with fact. paint- replaced all dry rotten and missing knobs, new seat, gauges, battery, wiring, alternator, fluids, practically everything but the new tires ($$$), and after using the little baby 1023e i scored recently- Realized how worn out the poor tractor is. It stuggles with 40ish pto HP to cut the mess im fighting. Keep in mind, the 5' bush hog im using is probably the equivalent of a HX-5 john deere. it weights in at almost 1,600 lbs. the sides and top deck have already rusted through once. the sides were replaced with C channel and new chains welded on front and back. I recently replaced the PTO shaft on it with a new one with new anti-rotation guards. Winnie, TX has a farm and ranch store with brand new 4-6' cutter pto shafts for 39.99 made in beaumont, tx, i went ahead and picked up 3- since thats what just 1 costs at tractor supply or john deere. I am considering a new tractor. I have multiple adjacent properties I am under moral obligation to maintain- I have about 30 contiguous acres Immediately attached to my homestead i am responsible for. My grandmother has about 5 acres surrounding her house that only gets a bi-annual cut (ragweed down here gets to 10' in 3-4 months easy), and my great-uncle has heart/blood pressure problems and has some larger pastures he has neglected a little and i have taken up the slack on, and recently my uncle (great uncle's son) was diagnosed/hospitalized with diverticulosis and after a hartmann's has let his property go and desperately needs some TLC- He has about 19 acres across the street but half of it is trees, so not too much to mow there. I am giving a LOT of consideration to a large flail for the tractor.

Currently i am eyeballing the JD 5083E- american made (except the front axle)(the 45-75 are made in India)and more than enough PTO to spin a good flail mower.
There is a Loftness 72M not far from here for about 4,000 dollars that has never been mowed with. It was purchased by a large industrial company whom disassembled it, and copied some of the dimensions, specs and design elements. They then reassembled it and offloaded it to a implement dealer. That is the only flail mower I have found for sale within about 50 miles of me. It looks pretty good, and has the "Y" style knives. I am unsure how tough this will be against 1" stalk 15' tall ragweed- the local john deere dealer (Fostersfarm.net) can order me one from JD- the 25A, 360,370,390 etc. I am also considering RHINO brand, VRISIMO, etc. I have some faith in the loftness brand as they have been making stalk choppers for corn fields (fully mature corn would be a close match to the difficulty in cutting ragweed which is 95% of the problem), vrisimo and rhino because of the heavy duty machines used for cutting vineyards and orchards- I am not so sure about the john deere's- I also have heard good things of alamo/mott and ford 917's- If anyone could give me some advise on what would be an appropriate cutter for what i am dealing with? I have intentions of keeping the 5' rotary for really nasty stuff like saplings and mulching, but hopefully if the flail works as good as i have heard, I will be using it less and less every year. I am in for durability- Maintenance i do not mind. I have a full machine shop nearby and everything necessary to do fluid changes/ greasing, check gearbox runout etc, along with sharpening knives and whatever other maintenance may be necessary. I don't want to shell out 8-10K for a mower- If i wanted to spend that much i'd get a brand new ModernAG 15' Batwing- Which is probably what i need anyway for trying to keep 50-60 acres under control by myself while keeping a fulltime job elsewhere- But if a flail mower with cut it lower, with no windrows, quieter, safer, and mulch it maybe improving soil quality and reducing weeds- I'll sow coastal bahia or something of the sort everywhere and have a hayer come in and cut it all for me for the hay and i won't have to mow much at all.

Thanks for all the great information- and love the pictures!
Tommy

 

[un-quality]

Sorry, double post.

 

[leonz]

Hello Fellows,

Long time reader, first time poster. Scored a BUSH HOG FL-50 from a used tractor and implement seller who has become a friend, for 200$. it was in horrible shape- the guy has probably 50 brand new box blades, 25 brand new brush hogs, and dozens of used implements from tillers, front end loaders, bat wings, tractors, even mini excavators at his home in Hardin, TX. Gets large lots from closing dealerships and at auctions- he had forgotten he had it (found it when taking picture of a big older JD disc and an antique tractor i was interested in). The bearings on the roller and drum were shot, to the point they had worn the center out of the shafts - I have them disassembled with plans to purchase new generic flange bearings and pop new centers, reweld and remachine them in my uncles shop- all the knives need to be replaced, but for now i will sharpen them (none are broken but all rusted badly)- I got all new bolts and locknuts for them (grade 8), because to get most of them off i will probably spin the bolt heads off or have to grind or torch them off. It has no belt cover. He threw in an almost new eurocardan driveshaft with slip clutch. So far i have completely disassembled the entire setup. The gearbox looked fantastic. I have found some basic diagrams/prints without dimensions on various part sites. I'm past attempting to find the correct dimensions and bearings- when i machine them i will just find the best value and most common close size bearings and go from there. we will check everything for balance while on the lathe- it's probably pretty close, as the rotor still has original paint, only the knives look bad. I tried it out as soon as i got it, and it was set entirely too low- i slapped it on my 1023e and run through a recently low mowed back pasture and it was scalping the ground. When I reassemble it i will ensure it to be set higher. If it cuts as well as i think it will (4 rows of 10 pairs of knives on the drum - 80 total blades @ only a 50" cut) it will be replacing my frontier 60" finisher for mowing around my grandmothers (approx 2 acres of yard), as well as my half acre yard.

Secondly, I have been using a IH 484 with a 5' Bush-hog ( I do not know what brand. the gearbox has no distinctive markings, it originally was a yellowish color (maybe allis chalmers? did cat ever make brush hogs?) It was used when we got the tractor.. 33 years ago. However it is indestructable. We often use it for mulching 3-4" tree limbs into compost.
I recently did a full cosmetic restore (Tore entire tractor down to transmission/motor, removed old paint, primed, and repainted with fact. paint- replaced all dry rotten and missing knobs, new seat, gauges, battery, wiring, alternator, fluids, practically everything but the new tires ($$$), and after using the little baby 1023e i scored recently- Realized how worn out the poor tractor is. It stuggles with 40ish pto HP to cut the mess im fighting. Keep in mind, the 5' bush hog im using is probably the equivalent of a HX-5 john deere. it weights in at almost 1,600 lbs. the sides and top deck have already rusted through once. the sides were replaced with C channel and new chains welded on front and back. I recently replaced the PTO shaft on it with a new one with new anti-rotation guards. Winnie, TX has a farm and ranch store with brand new 4-6' cutter pto shafts for 39.99 made in beaumont, tx, i went ahead and picked up 3- since thats what just 1 costs at tractor supply or john deere. I am considering a new tractor. I have multiple adjacent properties I am under moral obligation to maintain- I have about 30 contiguous acres Immediately attached to my homestead i am responsible for. My grandmother has about 5 acres surrounding her house that only gets a bi-annual cut (ragweed down here gets to 10' in 3-4 months easy), and my great-uncle has heart/blood pressure problems and has some larger pastures he has neglected a little and i have taken up the slack on, and recently my uncle (great uncle's son) was diagnosed/hospitalized with diverticulosis and after a hartmann's has let his property go and desperately needs some TLC- He has about 19 acres across the street but half of it is trees, so not too much to mow there. I am giving a LOT of consideration to a large flail for the tractor.

Currently i am eyeballing the JD 5083E- american made (except the front axle)(the 45-75 are made in India)and more than enough PTO to spin a good flail mower.
There is a Loftness 72M not far from here for about 4,000 dollars that has never been mowed with. It was purchased by a large industrial company whom disassembled it, and copied some of the dimensions, specs and design elements. They then reassembled it and offloaded it to a implement dealer. That is the only flail mower I have found for sale within about 50 miles of me. It looks pretty good, and has the "Y" style knives. I am unsure how tough this will be against 1" stalk 15' tall ragweed- the local john deere dealer (Fostersfarm.net) can order me one from JD- the 25A, 360,370,390 etc. I am also considering RHINO brand, VRISIMO, etc. I have some faith in the loftness brand as they have been making stalk choppers for corn fields (fully mature corn would be a close match to the difficulty in cutting ragweed which is 95% of the problem), vrisimo and rhino because of the heavy duty machines used for cutting vineyards and orchards- I am not so sure about the john deere's- I also have heard good things of alamo/mott and ford 917's- If anyone could give me some advise on what would be an appropriate cutter for what i am dealing with? I have intentions of keeping the 5' rotary for really nasty stuff like saplings and mulching, but hopefully if the flail works as good as i have heard, I will be using it less and less every year. I am in for durability- Maintenance i do not mind. I have a full machine shop nearby and everything necessary to do fluid changes/ greasing, check gearbox runout etc, along with sharpening knives and whatever other maintenance may be necessary. I don't want to shell out 8-10K for a mower- If i wanted to spend that much i'd get a brand new ModernAG 15' Batwing- Which is probably what i need anyway for trying to keep 50-60 acres under control by myself while keeping a fulltime job elsewhere- But if a flail mower with cut it lower, with no windrows, quieter, safer, and mulch it maybe improving soil quality and reducing weeds- I'll sow coastal bahia or something of the sort everywhere and have a hayer come in and cut it all for me for the hay and i won't have to mow much at all.

Thanks for all the great information- and love the pictures!
Tommy

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Hello Tommy,

Welcome to the forum, I also wish to welcome you as the newest member of the "Flail Mower Nation"

You have a bush hog finish flail mower apparently by your description.



NOW down to the business of flail mowers:

If you want a larger flail mower visit Used Tractors For Sale at TractorHouse.com: John Deere Tractors, used farm tractors and farm equipment, tractors for sale, Case IH, New Holland, Agco, Kubota they have more than a brood herd of them in their publication every week.



About your Bush Hog Flail Mower.


1. If the side slicers are only rusted and not DAMAGED
there is no need to replace them!

2. DO NOT sharpen them dry-if they are a hardened
steel side slicer the temper and strengthof the side slicer
will be ruined(you know that of course)

The blades are not that expensive if they are really
pitted and chipped.

3. If you have access to a wet well kitchen knive grinder
or can purchase a WEN wet well knive grinder
which I have they work wonders and will not ruin them.

4. About the Flail Mower Rotor-pay attention to this part!!!!!!

The rotor if properly machined and balanced as you have decribed a drum type flail mower rotor meaning-a tube shell with welded ends to create a large diameter pulley drum to mount the knive stations will have balance weight plates welded to it where needed and the knive mounting stations were attached in thier proper orbit afterwards to avoid interferring with the weight positions.

The flail mower rotor will have weights welded to the drum that were used to balance it and you will see them once it is cleaned if you have a steam jenney or have access to one please use it to clean all the parts.

About the stub shafts and the damage related to the stub shafts- Do not hate me for saying this BUT:

You will be money ahead purchasing a new rotor from Bush hog if possible as its going to be a bear to balance and I will explain why.


The flail mower rotor is balanced at speed being 540 rpm NO SLOWER.

if you have as much access to a machine shop an option is to cut out the end discs with a lathe and then clean the bore where the two cuts were made and then machine two entirely new end discs with the proper sized shaft attached and welded through a center hole in each disc.



The issue of the use a dial indicator jumps up and it will take time BUT THE PIECE NEEDS TO BE STEAM CLEANED BEFORE IT IS CHECKED with a dial indicator across the entire width.

Do not forget that the least little jump of the ball on the dial indicator is multiplied and magnified at the point at 540 rpm being 9 revolutions per second. THIS CAN AND WILL BREAK A POTENTIAL REPAIR as the orbit of the drum is not true at zero degrees on the Y axis


ABOUT THE LOFTNESS FLAIL MOWER:


The Loftness Flail Mower you mention will be more than
adequate forthe work you have to do and the hardened knives
will deal with your 15 foot tall rag weed with no issues
PROVIDED YOU TRAVEL SLOWLY TO KNOCK THEM ALL DOWN
on the first pass.

IF you have a fender radio all the better to eliminate the
boredom while mowing.

NOW if you purchase the Loftness I would ask the dealer to mow with it for at least 8 hours before you buy it as it has been disassembled and reassembled by who knows who.


If they will not do it they do not want you as a customer!!!!



If you purchase the Loftness Flail Mower there is no
reason you cannot mow in reverse over the rag weed
and then drive forward over it mowing it a second time.


A lot of equipment dealers are sitting on new flail mowers and other iron and place it on tractor house to sell it.


It may be worth your while to rent larger power and purchase a 16 foot Hiniker shredder
and only rent power when you need it as the Hiniker will will shred and chop everything too.

If you have gates and small width culverts to cross the smaller Loftness will be easier to deal with but renting power and owning a wide shredder will save you time and labor a you will be able to mower over the same area to a cutting height of 2 inches with a Hiniker shredder or a wider Loftness Flail Shredder.

The Hinikers permit you to tow the flail mower lengthways with an optional towing kit that will let you pass through smaller gates and over short width culverts and then remount the mower in either an integral(three point hitch) or a towed flail shredder configuration with scoopp knives or side slicers. The machines have light kits available to permit you to travel at night.

The other thing is a flail mower will permit you to mow when the brush is really wet or when it s raining and as i said renting power for acouple of days or one day with awider shredder may be much more financially acceptable and prudent as the flail shredder will also have a high resale value if needed.

Renting power and owning thewider implement/mower will cost you less money.


You can also purchase folding flail mowers from several importers of flail mowers built in Europe that can be used with the wing or wings folded up

 

[un-quality]

Thanks for the reply leonz! Yes, the rotor has weights welded almost square on the rotor on opposing ends - with some factory paint still on them. They appear to be for counterbalance, and as I said the rotor has no real wear. The ends of the rotor do not appear terrible. The ends of the drum are shot, and in need of the most work. I will attempt to take some pics tonight for ya'll if interested. I checked the rotor in housing with an indicator and I got .002 of wobble on the drive end and .009 on the slave end. After removing the rotor and placing it in V blocks in my baby shop I couldn't find any runout. The bearings on the rotor were newer, but not greased (maybe since they were installed!). The roller bearings one was newer with no grease, the other had no grease zerk on it, and had worn rings out of the roller shaft. I am sure with a little weld and lathe time it'll be good as new. I am going to weight the knives (I have a precision scale I use for reloading ammunition) and if they are pretty close (enough to not effect balance) I will sharpen them. And reuse them. I can even get balanced bolts and nuts of necessary, although for only 540 rpm that's surely overkill. I know how to sharpen them without a wet grinder, without losing heat treat. Everything on here seems spot on. If the rotor isn't warped (I couldn't find problems with concentricity) but it is out of balance, I have an acquaintance with a dsp shaft balancer big enough to chuck up the shaft with knives on it, and can weld weights to rebalance it if necessary. He usually charges less than 100$ for this service, but normally does cut and reweld and rebalanced driveshafts.



I have a lot of faith in the loftness, but am trying to get an idea on how it compares to the other brands listed and favored. The Mott/Alamo, ford 917, virisimo, rhino, caroni, John deere, and aforementioned loftness seem to be 95% of the flail market here in the states, from what I have read on this thread. I do not HAVE to buy a new flail mower, and can fix one no matter how bad the shape (machine shop is free for me).. I am interested in learning more about the more rugged flails and if this loftness falls into it, say for mowing a vineyard, because that's something else I deal with, lots of grapevines, muskedine, and poison ivy. Underneath the ragweed there is also lots of coastal Bahia, which is what I'll be hopefully only cleaning up after bailers come through later on.


I love my tractor time, but not enough to run a 5' mower all the time, and I don't have the room to use a batwing easily, or I already would have had one. This flail decision is competing with a 3 point MX8, or HX8, or dragon 8' (ModernAG) galvenized shredder. I have a picture of the loftness I am looking at too. I'll post tonight pictures

 

[fluffers]

guys- found 2 used flail mowers-both in very good shape- One is a kuhn BNE 180 and the other is a NH 918- The add says it is an "A" model but I only found info on the H model- I can get the Kuhn for around $3000 and the NH for around $2500- are these good mowers and which one if any is better- thanks

 

[leonz]

Fluffers-right now is a case of how much you can afford more than anything
and who the local dealers are to obtain parts.

The other issue is the physical condition. its too bad they do not install
acre meters on them.

 

[leonz]

Do not worry about weighing the knives or bolts the centrifugal force
created will not affect the throw weight enough to create a bend/deflection moment.

Purchase the Loftness Flail Mower as long as they run it for 8 hours of mowing
time as I mentioned.


What exactly do you want to know about heavy flail mowers used in vineyard and orchard trash and brush?????????????
You have to decide what type of knive you want period, heavy trash flail mowers have cast scoop knives with cutting edges. If you intend on dipping and grinding the side slicers do not waste you time-the temper will be gone quickly.



Read some or all of the posts on flailmowers-we have about a 110 pages on the subject.

 

[un-quality]

Do not worry about weighing the knives or bolts the centrifugal force
created will not affect the throw weight enough to create a bend/deflection moment.

Purchase the Loftness Flail Mower as long as they run it for 8 hours of mowing
time as I mentioned.


What exactly do you want to know about heavy flail mowers used in vineyard and orchard trash and brush?????????????
You have to decide what type of knive you want period, heavy trash flail mowers have cast scoop knives with cutting edges. If you intend on dipping and grinding the side slicers do not waste you time-the temper will be gone quickly.



Read some or all of the posts on flailmowers-we have about a 110 pages on the subject.

I was under the impression the y style knives were more of a finish knife. I was interested in the features that differentiate the durability of trash flails versus the 72m loftness- as that is how I will be able to ascertain the exact flail mower best to suit my needs. I know the virisimo will just about mulch anything, and I am wondering what will be "too much" for the loftness. I would only want to make this purchase once.

 

[leonz]

I was under the impression the y style knives were more of a finish knife. I was interested in the features that differentiate the durability of trash flails versus the 72m loftness- as that is how I will be able to a scertain the exact flail mower best to suit my needs. I know the Virisimo will just about mulch anything, and I am wondering what will be "too much" for the Loftness. I would only want to make this purchase once.

What will be too much for the Loftness is too fast a ground speed and too low an RPM.
You can crawl through tall brush and knock it down the ground as long as you are patient and perhaps have fender radio.

No the side slicers are used for heavy shredding and brush as well. It all depends on the thickness of the knive body and they are hardened steel as well like so many other side slicer knives of many brands of shredders.

In the Hiniker and Mathews and other brands you can purchase a cup type knive for wide shredders. The Hiniker nad others also offer a thick side slicer knive as well-the cup scoop knives are used for shredding beet tops potators, cottom stalks sugar cane stubble, dorn stubble

Loftness has been around for a long time and you can obtain parts so.............


Typically a finish flail mower will have four rows of side slicers for fine cutting of
grass to make small clippings.

If you can post some pictures of the flail please post more than a handfull with very
good light we can help you.

If you trust the dealer you should be fine as long as they run the mower for 8 hours of mowing.

AS I said perhaps a better option is to buy a new shredder and rent power for a day or two and you will have it done in one or two days.

The side slicers will shred and shred and the cup knive shredders will shred and shred so its an issue of what you need and can afford.

Look at tractorhouse.com too as I mentioned as you are shopping. Call a manufacturer ask questions and ask more questions again. A 8-ten foot flail shredder for crops will mow down to 2 inches just like the sixteen foot Hiniker so its a moot point. you could also rent the flail shredder out too on a day rate so thats an option.

The issue for you is mobility and adaptability where a heavy crop shredder sized for your smallest mowing situation/gate/culvertvineyard row is going to be your only limitation.

If you are in a vinyard or orchard you need an integral three point mounted shredder so take that into account and you need to have one that is not too much weight and having front weights is a plus too.


We only want you to succeed. call a manufacturer or two or three and ask questions be sure to tell them what power you have at the PTO and whether you have a gear drive or a hydro tractor as the hydro will have a limited power band unless you have cruise control. '

Time for bed, check out the flailmower pages, make phone calls think about your entire need and the time YOU WILL HAVE- you may just end up renting power for an 8 footer that you will purchase and be done in a short time as the mower will not not be bogged down providing you mow slowly to knock everything down and also back over heavy brush first to protect the underside of the rented power.

 

[fluffers]

thanks - leaning towards the Kuhn seems very well made- just curious as to opinions on the BNE180 unit- seller says it is 5 yrs old with about 60 hrs on it???thks