Liquid ballast amount question

[Rowski]

I had my tires loaded (with Ballast star, aka rim guard) on my new TN70DA. They were not loaded at the selling dealer because they did not offer Ballast Star. So I had to go to a Kubuta/case dealer. Of couse I got a little ribbing as you can imagine, but I expected it. Before I made the appointment I went to Ballast Star web site and and found the tires to hold 69 gallons. I also went to Goodyears site and found they too recomend 69 gallons. I called up the dealer and asked for a rough ball park figure. They told me that its $3 per gallon plus labor. I was fine with that. I get there and they loaded the tires. I was there during the loading but did not watch the tech every minute because once the fluid was being pumped in, not much to watch. So when they were done they told me the tires took a 110 gallons each. I questioned the amount. The tech looked up the gallonage on the chart and it says 69 gallons. So I questioned it even more. The tech mentioned that the charts are only used as a guide and are off. I mentioned that being off 40 gallons is a lot. The tech then mentioned to the counter person and he said if the meter shows 110 gallons than that is what took.

So is it possible that the charts are off by 40 gallons per tire?

One thing that I did notice is that during the fill procedure you need to vent off air from the tire. The tech did this 2 times times per tire. But what I noticed is that during the bleeding of air the meter was continuing to run (counting). I also know the tire are not over loaded as the tech was tapping the side wall of the tire with a flat bar on edge and could tell where the level was. When I got home I did the same thing and sure enough the tires are at the proper fill level.


So thats 41 gallons extra per tire. 82 gallons @ $3 per gallon is $246 dollars for fluid that I did not get. Unless the charts are off.

$246 that is almost the price of my hydraulic toplink!!

What do you all think? Do I have a go gripe here?

 

[Henro]

I think you probably do have a gripe here.

You could do a simple calculation of volume by taking measurements of the tire and the wheel, treating what you come up with as two cylinders, subtracting the volume of the wheel "cylinder" from the tire "cylinder" and then converting the cubic feet you come up with to liquid measure. This would give you a ball park number to see if the charts you referred to make sense.

I don't remember the gallons per cu ft, but it should be easy to find that number.

My GUESS would be that the Goodyear site is pretty accurate. Tractorsmart.com also has a table showing the amount of liquid tires of various sizes will hold. That chart was right on as far as my tires went.

Sounds like you may have got shafted, but you should be able to get this corrected if you did, because physical demensions and correct calculations don't lie.

Worst case, tell them to take the liquid back out of one tire and measure it, and if you are wrong you will pay the labor to take it out and put it back in. But if you are right they should do it for free and also compensate you for your time and trouble (long shot, but why not try).

I would also get the owner or manager involved and not bother dealing with the mechanic or counter person any further...

edit: Even worst case, tell them that you will go to small claims court and that since you have the charts to back you up, including the one in their shop, that it will be up to them to prove that those charts are wrong in front of the judge.

 

[bczoom]

I too think you have a valid gripe and would do what Henro is recommending.

If I recall correctly, 1 gallon = 231 cu/in.

 

[JerryG]

Derek,
There is no way that the charts are off that much. It would be a hard call about what to do. I think that the first thing that I would do is present everything to the owner.

 

[beenthere]

I agree and would say you will pay for 69 gallons per tire, and suggest they calibrate their meter. Anything else is fraud, IMO. You can figure it backwards and suggest how big a tire would have to be to hold the 110 gallons. (correct that there are 231 cu.in per gallon).

Good luck. Hope it works out for you when you talk to the owner, or manager.

 

[KennyV]

When this happened THEY should have at least tried to satisfy your questioning of their measure… It looks like their metering is off by 59% … I suspect that if they were to pump through their meter into a 1 gallon container, their reading would be 1.59 gallons…
Definitely WAY out of calibration. At beenthere said.

I don’t think they would be so willing to go by their meter reading if it was out of cal the other direction… showing they pumped 28 gallons into a container the charts show to be 69 gallons.

Really sorry to hear this is a Kubota dealer. Then again it may be innocent, although the mechanic doing the work should be aware of what he’s doing, a 10% error he may not notice… almost 60% error he is too careless.

If you pumped fuel in your car that you knew the tank to hold 18 gallons but the pump showed 28 ½ gallons… would you accept the charge… you are paying more here per gallon than you pay for gasoline.

Like Henro said “I would also get the owner or manager involved and not bother dealing with the mechanic or counter person any further...” KennyV.

 

[Rowski]

Thanks for the encouragement. Just wanted to make sure I have a good solid gripe, not just a gripe /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

The more I keep thinking about this the more I think there meter may not be off but more a procedure problem. The dealer is just started using Ballast Star this late spring early summer. So the equpiment is new. Where I think they are going wrong is during the fill procedure you have to stop pumping in the liquid and switch a lever on the pump. This lets the air pressure bleed out. Usually you have to do it once or twice per tire. When the tech was letting the air bleed out the meter was still turning. This is where I think the error is occuring.

Its one thig to claim the meter is off but another to claim human error. Most people get very "funny" , insulted I guess.

So what would the approach be for human error? Should I not even get involed in what went wrong?

Again thanks for all your help.

 

[hazmat]

Try not to point fingers. It won't get you anywhere.

Contact the manager & state that based on your expectation & documentation, you expected that 69 gallons would do it. (You could also do the math calcs as a sanity check.) Explain that you are not sure what went wrong, but that you'd like it resolved. Hint at fraud / contacting the state/town weights & measures department.

Unfortunately you don't have much leverage, as you don't do much (if any?) business with this dealer.

Edit here

Plenty of ways to "check their work" - Ie drain it out and measure it.. None worth your or their time for $200.

 

[oliver28472]

In North Carolina our State Dept. of Agriculture monitors any scale or meter where a product is sold by weight, volume, etc. Like you said the problem is likely when the meter continued to roll while air was being bled off. Seems more like a procedural blunder by the tech. This would still be an issue for our NCDA.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> So what would the approach be for human error? Should I not even get involed in what went wrong?
</font>

I don't think it would hurt, if you are talking with the owner/manager to mention "I think I might have an idea why the number is wrong..." And explain what you observed.

It seems unlikely that air could bleed out of the tire at the same time a rather dense liquid was being pumped in, since there was only one entry point to the tire. If the meter was clicking while the air was bleading out...gallons that were not going into the tire were being added to your bill.

No need to discuss it with the tech, who might take offense. The manager might even thank you...for pointing this out to him.

The dealership is probably an honest one which will want to make an obvious wrong right I would bet. I would be nice about it, explain my concern and see the reaction.

I would not push until I was forced to. But my bet is that won't be necessary. You have a valid complaint, documentation (filll charts) to back you up, and a reasonable, likely explaination for why the mistake occured.

That's a winning hand in my book. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif