Looking to start a small beef farm- need tractor advice.

[rScotty]

The rule of thumb is that a tractor is supposed to weigh at least as much as the baler. A 4x4 or 4x5 dry hay round baler generally weighs less than 5000 pounds with a full bale in the chamber. A smaller cabbed MFWD utility tractor with a loader is going to weigh at least 8500 pounds, and properly ballasted will weigh about five tons. That is more than enough weight.

If you are looking at a cabbed MFWD tractor with a hydraulic reverser, you are pretty much limited to units made since the early to mid 1990s and newer. If you are looking at green tractors, the 5500, 5510, 5520, 5525, 5093E/5101E would fit the size and feature requirements. I've run the "fuel turned down one notch but otherwise identical" versions of the 5510 and 5093E/5101E and they were nice units. If you are looking at pre-Tier 4 units, you want to get one made before 2014- all of the models I listed were pre-Tier 4.

I went the one-tractor route with a 75 HP 2WD open station unit to hay about twice as much ground as you intend on haying someday. I make small squares for myself and sell some, and roll up the remainder in round bales which I load when I sell. I can't say I ever thought I needed a second tractor, as it's just me working and I can't drive two tractors at once and this one is good sized for what I do. All of my hay equipment is drawn so it's easy to drop one piece of equipment and hook up another, it's not like I have a 3 point mounted disc mower that's "fun" to hook and unhook.

Yes, I'd agree with that for haying in the South. I prefer open station myself.... but then I was raised before cabs were common. I do like those JDs.

From the title of the thread I thought the OP was talking beef production - but then he seemed to stray into hay. The work is a bit different. I just don't know about an open station 2wd for doing chores in blizzards & snow . after all, he's in NY.- uh, actually I guess I do know. I've just almost managed to forget what it's like to be bundled up, running chains on duallys and chipping ice.

Summertime is nice, but half the year he is going to be slick, sloppy, and cold.
Maybe a alternative idea is to concentrate on either beef or hay at first, not both.

rScotty

 

[mo1]

Yes, I'd agree with that for haying in the South. I prefer open station myself.... but then I was raised before cabs were common. I do like those JDs.

From the title of the thread I thought the OP was talking beef production - but then he seemed to stray into hay. The work is a bit different. I just don't know about an open station 2wd for doing chores in blizzards & snow . after all, he's in NY.- uh, actually I guess I do know. I've just almost managed to forget what it's like to be bundled up, running chains on duallys and chipping ice.

Summertime is nice, but half the year he is going to be slick, sloppy, and cold.
Maybe a alternative idea is to concentrate on either beef or hay at first, not both.

rScotty

I am not in the South but the only blizzards we see are at Dairy Queen and "tire chains" are places like Discount Tire or Tire Rack. Average highs in the coldest part of January are in the low 40s and average lows are in the low 20s. We might hit -10 F for a low on the absolute coldest day of the year, but we also will typically break 60 for a high at least 2-3 times in January as well. We get a few inches at a time and then it melts within a few days as it rarely stays below freezing for more than a few days at a time. We get about 7 weeks of winter here where we can even get an accumulating snow, it is between the first of the year and the third week of February. Few worry very much about snow here, the ones that do are the generally ones who came from the actual South where everything closes because there was a one-snowflake flurry.

Most people who raise beef here put up hay, as even though we don't get much winter here, the grass still doesn't grow between November and late March. You either have to make hay, buy hay, or be one of the very few who are willing to have a very low stocking rate in order to be able to turn your cattle out on dormant uncut grass with low nutritional value in order to avoid dealing with hay. We saw who all of the ones were this year who had a high stocking rate and don't make their own hay, they were dumping their herds at the sale barns as they couldn't find enough hay to buy to feed their herd.

 

[Turbo5upra]

I worked on a dairy farm in my teens… we had mostly older open station equipment and while most of the time it was fine not having a cab there were a few times I’d be miserable in a white out or single/double digits below zero…

I’m doing this for fun, to pay for the toys and use the land and most importantly teach my 5 month old daughter how to be self sufficient and the value of a good days work. (I have a couple years to work out the bugs )

I did the math last night on buying hay with a friend who raises about 13 head and it comes out to be about 5k a year… he suggested I buy it but that takes away most of my “play time” after work-
My plan isn’t to jump right into 20 head but start with 5-6 in the spring and possibly buy the hay for next winter while working toward being self sufficient.

 

[Turbo5upra]

Scotty I assumed the bailing would be the harder nut to crack- as far as beef goes I’d mostly be using the tractor for dropping bails in the winter and cleaning up in the spring with some mowing of the pastures and such- am I missing something obvious I should be shopping for on the beef side of things?

 

[Farmer495]

I run beef and do hay.

Budget is the biggest question. I could have a lot of stuff for a million, not so much for 10K.

30 to 40 acres of hay..that is a days work for large gear.

Smaller gear that is a 3-4 day job.

40 PTO HP utility would do the whole job if needed. I put up way more hay than 30-40 acres a year with that size of tractor. (round bales)

I'd go 60 PTO HP min if you can get your hands on smaller round baler or disc mower.

80 to 100 HP gives you options. Locally it's easier and cheaper to buy a 4x5 silage special baler and a 11' disc bine used than buy a 4x4 round baler and 7' disc mower used.

 

[Turbo5upra]

I run beef and do hay.

Budget is the biggest question. I could have a lot of stuff for a million, not so much for 10K.

30 to 40 acres of hay..that is a days work for large gear.

Smaller gear that is a 3-4 day job.

40 PTO HP utility would do the whole job if needed. I put up way more hay than 30-40 acres a year with that size of tractor. (round bales)

I'd go 60 PTO HP min if you can get your hands on smaller round baler or disc mower.

80 to 100 HP gives you options. Locally it's easier and cheaper to buy a 4x5 silage special baler and a 11' disc bine used than buy a 4x4 round baler and 7' disc mower used.

My l4350 with ag tires on it would get it done with a small square bailer and haybine but I’d like to get it done a bit more efficiently. The 75 engine hp mahindra would get it done and the local dealer seems very solid but I think 65ish pto will leave me wanting a bit more.
budget is part of the concern but more so want to be efficient and reliable.

 

[Farmer495]

My l4350 with ag tires on it would get it done with a small square bailer and haybine but I’d like to get it done a bit more efficiently. The 75 engine hp mahindra would get it done and the local dealer seems very solid but I think 65ish pto will leave me wanting a bit more.
budget is part of the concern but more so want to be efficient and reliable.

I'm running 64 PTO HP now, more than enough to run the 4x4 baler and 7 foot disc mower.

The 64 is doing the exact same work the 42 PTO HP tractor did, just does it a little easier and quicker. I now also wrap majority of my bales so I am hauling and wrapping same day baled.

I do not lack for power, only time I could use more power is hauling bales home and that's only because I am hauling two wagons of haylage at a time. If I hauled one a time I wouldn't notice.

Raking, tedding, wrapping still all handled by 40 HP tractors.

I do feed in winter with 2wd & chains when just snow and ice but it gets parked and 4wd feeds when it's muddy.

 

[Raul-02]

the only implement I have that's a PITA to hook up is my hayward selectatilth. And that's mostly because I'm a cheap SOB and won't spend the money to get a better connector. So I spend minutes and minutes spinning the PTO on and off trying to get it to line up. All my other 3-point tools are pretty easy to hook up even the post hole digger. I wouldn't let the prospect of having to change implements prevent me from putting money into a bigger better tractor instead of buying two.

 

[mo1]

My l4350 with ag tires on it would get it done with a small square bailer and haybine but I’d like to get it done a bit more efficiently. The 75 engine hp mahindra would get it done and the local dealer seems very solid but I think 65ish pto will leave me wanting a bit more.
budget is part of the concern but more so want to be efficient and reliable.

You could do small square bales but I would still guess you'd want a heavier tractor unless your fields are flat or you drop bales and then pick them up later by hand or with a small stack wagon. I wouldn't want to pull a small square baler and a full wagon behind it (if you have a thrower, a bale wagon, or a person stacking on a typical sized flatbed wagon) on hills with that small of a tractor, nor would I want to have 1500 pounds or so of grapple and bales hanging off of a loader on a tractor that size if you use an accumulator and grapple. You might have enough lift at the pins to do this but the grapples stick way out there and put a lot of leverage on the loader. A full-sized utility tractor of 50 or so engine HP would be fine for this, though.

65 PTO HP would be fine for any of the non-precutter round balers, I've run a 5x6 regular dry hay round baler behind a 65 PTO HP tractor in the past and it was perfectly fine. The only thing you probably would not want to run with that tractor would be a disc mower-conditioner.

I run beef and do hay.

Budget is the biggest question. I could have a lot of stuff for a million, not so much for 10K.

30 to 40 acres of hay..that is a days work for large gear.

Smaller gear that is a 3-4 day job.

40 PTO HP utility would do the whole job if needed. I put up way more hay than 30-40 acres a year with that size of tractor. (round bales)

I'd go 60 PTO HP min if you can get your hands on smaller round baler or disc mower.

80 to 100 HP gives you options. Locally it's easier and cheaper to buy a 4x5 silage special baler and a 11' disc bine used than buy a 4x4 round baler and 7' disc mower used.

I guess it depends on what you consider "large gear." I consider "large gear" to be self-propelled swathers, the triple mounted disc mower setups, and the multiple-cutterbar units such as the >14' disc mowers and mower-conditioners- things that are inappropriate for people who hay a few hundred acres or less as a side job. Those can cut 40 acres in a few hours. I could cut 40 acres in one day without trouble with a 10 1/2' plain disc mower and a 75 HP tractor. Raking that with a bar rake or small (12 wheel or less) V-rake and then baling would be a short day as well. The only way I could see it taking multiple days would be doing small squares where you have to manually stack, that takes time and I can't come anywhere close to stacking 3000 or so bales from 40 acres of hay in the barn in one day by myself.

Around here I see quite a few plain disc mowers as the hay generally doesn't require conditioning. 10ish foot 8 disc models are everywhere. You do see some 9' 7 disc units and 8' 6 disc units too. There are a few five disc 7' units as well but those are pretty much a buy-it-new proposition. Disc mower-conditioners are usually 8 or 9 disc but I'd say I see plain disc mowers sell 2 to 1 compared to disc mower-conditioners.

4x4 round balers are rare but there are a lot of 4x5s, some of which are silage special balers. You can run most 4x5 silage special balers on a 60-65 PTO HP tractor as it's generally the 4x6 and 5x6 units that can come with a precutter and would take 100 PTO HP to run (and those are rare around here.) The main difference is that the silage special baler is 2000-3000 pounds heavier than the dry hay baler, but a 60-65 PTO HP tractor with a loader would still be heavier than the baler with a full bale in the chamber and run it fine. (I have done that too.) People around here who buy the silage special balers mostly do so because they are heavier/stouter than the dry hay balers, they don't actually make baleage. The guys making silage generally chop it and ensile in a pit or blow it into a bag, the handful of guys making baleage appear to be using 5x6 bales as you get a lot more silage in the bale per foot of bale wrap than you do with smaller bales.

 

[Farmer495]

I guess it depends on what you consider "large gear." I consider "large gear" to be self-propelled swathers, the triple mounted disc mower setups, and the multiple-cutterbar units such as the >14' disc mowers and mower-conditioners- things that are inappropriate for people who hay a few hundred acres or less as a side job. Those can cut 40 acres in a few hours. I could cut 40 acres in one day without trouble with a 10 1/2' plain disc mower and a 75 HP tractor. Raking that with a bar rake or small (12 wheel or less) V-rake and then baling would be a short day as well. The only way I could see it taking multiple days would be doing small squares where you have to manually stack, that takes time and I can't come anywhere close to stacking 3000 or so bales from 40 acres of hay in the barn in one day by myself.

Around here I see quite a few plain disc mowers as the hay generally doesn't require conditioning. 10ish foot 8 disc models are everywhere. You do see some 9' 7 disc units and 8' 6 disc units too. There are a few five disc 7' units as well but those are pretty much a buy-it-new proposition. Disc mower-conditioners are usually 8 or 9 disc but I'd say I see plain disc mowers sell 2 to 1 compared to disc mower-conditioners.

4x4 round balers are rare but there are a lot of 4x5s, some of which are silage special balers. You can run most 4x5 silage special balers on a 60-65 PTO HP tractor as it's generally the 4x6 and 5x6 units that can come with a precutter and would take 100 PTO HP to run (and those are rare around here.) The main difference is that the silage special baler is 2000-3000 pounds heavier than the dry hay baler, but a 60-65 PTO HP tractor with a loader would still be heavier than the baler with a full bale in the chamber and run it fine. (I have done that too.) People around here who buy the silage special balers mostly do so because they are heavier/stouter than the dry hay balers, they don't actually make baleage. The guys making silage generally chop it and ensile in a pit or blow it into a bag, the handful of guys making baleage appear to be using 5x6 bales as you get a lot more silage in the bale per foot of bale wrap than you do with smaller bales.

30-40' Butterfly mower, 30-40 foot twin rotor rake etc I consider large here. Silage special baler with cutterhead is king. Almost everything is wrapped.

I've cut 30 acres in one day with 5 disc mower. Still a day tied up regardless of size of gear.

Plain mowers are trend now, prices went crazy on disc mow/co and conditioning isn't really needed here.

10-11' foot size discbine very common for under 10k used now. Can't touch a brand new 5 pot mower for less than 17k or so now and forget finding a used one...like you said really only a buy it new thing.

4x4 baler is now rare, they used to be very common, now it's the 4x5 silage special.

I'd have way easier time buying cheap, serviceable hay gear for a 80-100 HP tractor than for a 40-60 one now. If I wanted a replacement 4x4 baler today, I'd have to hunt online and have it shipped, 4x5 silage special, it's on the lot locally at any time and I can still make a 4x4 bale with it. 48x54 bales are common here for silage.