Big_Cajun
Silver Member
Do the M-Series engines use wet sleeve or dry sleeve technology?
BC
BC
M-Series Engines
- Thread starter Big_Cajun
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yardman1
New member
Dry I think they call it Parrot bored Engines. or is on mine it's a M4900
5030
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Big Cajun:
All thew M series, in fact all the Kubota Tractors are dry linered engines (dry sleeve). They aren't parrot bore, they are Parent Bore, that is, the block is bored to accept the sleve and the sleeve is a press fit in the block casting. With a dry linered engine you don't need to add potassium permagnate to the coolant to prevent cavitation of the liners.
The only wet bore engines I know of within the real of everyday use is a class 8 diesel like a Caterpillar 3406E or a Detroit DDEC 60 series engine.
All thew M series, in fact all the Kubota Tractors are dry linered engines (dry sleeve). They aren't parrot bore, they are Parent Bore, that is, the block is bored to accept the sleve and the sleeve is a press fit in the block casting. With a dry linered engine you don't need to add potassium permagnate to the coolant to prevent cavitation of the liners.
The only wet bore engines I know of within the real of everyday use is a class 8 diesel like a Caterpillar 3406E or a Detroit DDEC 60 series engine.
Sully2
Veteran Member
Cummins 8.3 liter and up also.
So THATS what the stuff is in the coolant...geeze! Commonly referred to as DCA. ( diesel coolant additive)
So THATS what the stuff is in the coolant...geeze! Commonly referred to as DCA. ( diesel coolant additive)
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Sully:
I buggered my post. I should have said "realm" and there is a definite line between wet linered and dry linered and that's around 8 liter. Yes, DCA is potassium permagnate and distilled water.. It "coats" the coolant side of the liner walls to prevent cavitation and the resulting implosion of gasified bubbles. which crater the liner wall and result in eventual perforation of the liner.
There are advantages and disadvantages to a parent bore engine as opposed to a wet linered engine especially when doing an overhaul.
I buggered my post. I should have said "realm" and there is a definite line between wet linered and dry linered and that's around 8 liter. Yes, DCA is potassium permagnate and distilled water.. It "coats" the coolant side of the liner walls to prevent cavitation and the resulting implosion of gasified bubbles. which crater the liner wall and result in eventual perforation of the liner.
There are advantages and disadvantages to a parent bore engine as opposed to a wet linered engine especially when doing an overhaul.
OP
Big_Cajun
Silver Member
Thanks for the info guys.
Daryl: Wouldn't a wet linered engine be easier to overhaul than a parent bore engine? This would only require changing sleeves in the wet engine versus maybe reboring the parent bore engine cylinders....please set me in the right direction.
BC
Daryl: Wouldn't a wet linered engine be easier to overhaul than a parent bore engine? This would only require changing sleeves in the wet engine versus maybe reboring the parent bore engine cylinders....please set me in the right direction.
BC
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BigCajun:
You can resleeve either type, it's just harder to pull the liners on a parent bore engine....you need either a screw type liner puller and a 3/4" drive impact wrench or a hydraulic liner puller. There is another way though. Run a weld bead vertically from the top of the liner to the bottom. It shrinks the liner away from the block wall and allows easy removal.
There is another type of diesel though not very common and that is a bored block and no liner. That's a throw away engine.
I'm going to do my 1085 this summer. It's a Perkins parent bore.
A wet linered engine has to have seals on the liners or what is called crevice seals to keep the coolant on the wet side of the liner and not on the combustion side. Parent bore/dry linered engines need no seals as the liners are a dry interference fit in the block itself.
You can resleeve either type, it's just harder to pull the liners on a parent bore engine....you need either a screw type liner puller and a 3/4" drive impact wrench or a hydraulic liner puller. There is another way though. Run a weld bead vertically from the top of the liner to the bottom. It shrinks the liner away from the block wall and allows easy removal.
There is another type of diesel though not very common and that is a bored block and no liner. That's a throw away engine.
I'm going to do my 1085 this summer. It's a Perkins parent bore.
A wet linered engine has to have seals on the liners or what is called crevice seals to keep the coolant on the wet side of the liner and not on the combustion side. Parent bore/dry linered engines need no seals as the liners are a dry interference fit in the block itself.
OP
Big_Cajun
Silver Member
Thanks Daryl:
The information you provided was a big help. Now, I want to ask your opinion on something. If you were buying new, would you buy wet liner or parent bore? Would you have any problems buying either engine type?
Thanks so much.
BC
The information you provided was a big help. Now, I want to ask your opinion on something. If you were buying new, would you buy wet liner or parent bore? Would you have any problems buying either engine type?
Thanks so much.
BC
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BC:
I had to think awhile on this one. That's why the answer is belated somewhat.
You are governed by manufacturing practice and set indusrty standards when going from parent bore/dry linered engines to wet linered engines. Different manufacturers have different adaptations for their respective engines. Another consideration is the eventual rebuild scenario. For the average mechanic a wet liner rebuild would be easier, however, taking into account the longevity of a diesel powerplant in general, most original owners don't rebuild their engines anyway. A good example is the expected life of a 3406 Caterpillar on road diesel. The expected internal life is one million miles. Barring catastrophic failure like a broken injector tip, perforated head gasket or dropped valve, in reality, 90 percent of the engines go the expected life. As far as the new generation of tractors are concerned, I never heard of anyone doing a major overhaul on any of them and any engine failures are usually caused by a total lack of maintenance. In conclusion, so long as you maintain the engine and drivetrain in any given make of tractor according to the manufacturers designated service intervals and use the manufacturers recommended API grades amd weight of lubricants and greases, you will most likely will never experience any failure in the motor or drivetrain whether it is a wet linered or parent bore/dry linered engine.
I, for one, get amusement from the continuing "oil threads" here. OEM manufacturers don't spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on R&D just to list some particular brand (not) in the owner's manuals.
My continuing philosophy is to follow the maintenance guidelines in the owner's manual as closely as possible and use the correct lubricants and API designations.
I had to think awhile on this one. That's why the answer is belated somewhat.
You are governed by manufacturing practice and set indusrty standards when going from parent bore/dry linered engines to wet linered engines. Different manufacturers have different adaptations for their respective engines. Another consideration is the eventual rebuild scenario. For the average mechanic a wet liner rebuild would be easier, however, taking into account the longevity of a diesel powerplant in general, most original owners don't rebuild their engines anyway. A good example is the expected life of a 3406 Caterpillar on road diesel. The expected internal life is one million miles. Barring catastrophic failure like a broken injector tip, perforated head gasket or dropped valve, in reality, 90 percent of the engines go the expected life. As far as the new generation of tractors are concerned, I never heard of anyone doing a major overhaul on any of them and any engine failures are usually caused by a total lack of maintenance. In conclusion, so long as you maintain the engine and drivetrain in any given make of tractor according to the manufacturers designated service intervals and use the manufacturers recommended API grades amd weight of lubricants and greases, you will most likely will never experience any failure in the motor or drivetrain whether it is a wet linered or parent bore/dry linered engine.
I, for one, get amusement from the continuing "oil threads" here. OEM manufacturers don't spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on R&D just to list some particular brand (not) in the owner's manuals.
My continuing philosophy is to follow the maintenance guidelines in the owner's manual as closely as possible and use the correct lubricants and API designations.
OP
Big_Cajun
Silver Member
Thanks very much Daryl.
BC
BC