MADE IN CHINA on JD

[BTI]

Daedong isn't Chinese.
They are Korean.

BTI

 

[DavesTractor]

I've been to tractor factories in China and India. Mahindra won the Deming award in 2003, the only tractor company besides Yanmar to do so, if my memory serves me right.

As for China, it was a lot better than I expected. The factory I visited was clean and automated. Workers were happy and paid fairly. I don't think they were all just acting for my benefit. The product output was very good. I did wish they were using ear protection for loud procedures, and a few things like that. But they had exhaust hoods over the dyno area, ergonomically laid out workstations, clean break rooms, cafeteria, etc. I did have a moment to pop into a smaller older implement factory, and much was done by hand and saftey was lacking. It was more of what I expected, but still no slave labor.

I saw in China that they build cheap junk for those willing to market it. They also build good stuff, but it is not nearly as cheap. Much of the junk we see is because whomever is marketing it in the USA bought from the bottom of the barrel.

As to moral issues, religious freedom etc., I will leave that out of this forum as it isn't the place for it. But don't construe that to mean I don't care. It is an interesting topic, and maybe not a simple as it would at first seem.

BTW, I saw more Buicks in Beijing than I could believe. And every young person had a cell phone. The world is getting smaller.

A great book is "The World is Flat" by Friedman. It gives some real insight into this discussion.

 

[mjncad]

Yes, it was...but Deming isn't "politically correct"...never was.

Here's some interesting reading:
Deming's 14 Points

It's too bad Deming's TQM was corrupted by various corporate managers or manglers as I call them into something that became a joke. I remember the defunct Stearns-Roger engineering company and its successors I worked for from 1979 to 1995 where the "Pointy Haired Bosses" read all the buzzwords in a trade rag; but knew nothing of the substance of TQM.

Political Correctness is a pox on American society.

 

[mjncad]

... I have and I can assure you the factories I visited are hardly slave driven. They are pretty high tech and workers seem happy. Another member here posted the same type of example talking about how generally the people are good and happy.

I am postive a small precentage of factories are slave driven but to suggest all of them operate in that fashion is delusional. I have also witnessed alot of USA factories running slave labour types of factories. Does that mean all the USA factories are scum? Turbo36 I can assure you China is not becoming the super power of the world for manufacturing by treating it's work force of 750 million like slaves.

You speak from the things you hear in the media, not from first hand experience. Turbo36 have you been to china to witness first hand the so call information you speak?

JDCAN:

I myself have not been to China; but I suspect the majority of manufacturing operations done there are under less than humane conditions to put it politely. Although the Chinese government may not be the near-pure Communist government it once was; it still is a Communist government cloaked in secrecy and deception. I'm sure what you saw on your visit(s) to China were carefully orchestrated to show you the positive things. Also, the Chinese government had no problem executing a government official who was supposed to oversee the quality of foodstuffs and other related personal care items being exported. Did they do this out of a guilty conscience for the people who died in Panama and elsewhere from anti-freeze cough syrup? I doubt it; I'll bet the Chinese government made the guy a scapegoat and executed him to preserve the cash cow of cheaply made junk they are exporting.

I'm not trying to pick a fight; but I'm curious as to your motivations as a proponent of Chinese manufacturing. Most everyone else on this thread is sick of paying good money for Chinese junk that fails repeatedly and prematurely.

 

[JDCAN]

I've been to tractor factories in China and India. Mahindra won the Deming award in 2003, the only tractor company besides Yanmar to do so, if my memory serves me right.

As for China, it was a lot better than I expected. The factory I visited was clean and automated. Workers were happy and paid fairly. I don't think they were all just acting for my benefit. The product output was very good. I did wish they were using ear protection for loud procedures, and a few things like that. But they had exhaust hoods over the dyno area, ergonomically laid out workstations, clean break rooms, cafeteria, etc. I did have a moment to pop into a smaller older implement factory, and much was done by hand and saftey was lacking. It was more of what I expected, but still no slave labor.

I saw in China that they build cheap junk for those willing to market it. They also build good stuff, but it is not nearly as cheap. Much of the junk we see is because whomever is marketing it in the USA bought from the bottom of the barrel.

As to moral issues, religious freedom etc., I will leave that out of this forum as it isn't the place for it. But don't construe that to mean I don't care. It is an interesting topic, and maybe not a simple as it would at first seem.

BTW, I saw more Buicks in Beijing than I could believe. And every young person had a cell phone. The world is getting smaller.

A great book is "The World is Flat" by Friedman. It gives some real insight into this discussion.

Davestractor that was a very good post, glad you shared your experiences.
Everything you described is exactly what I witnessed while I was down in China on a few trips.

mjncad the above post is like the 3rd or 4th user that posted a similar experience while visiting China. The users that have toured China's factories have all reported the same, happy workers, clean quality work areas and tools etc. Then everyone like yourself that have NEVER visited China assumes wild stories of slave labor and dungeons for factories which frankly just are not true. China is now part of WTO. They have clearly raised their levels over the years in order to become a member.

While they might have different government rules and laws, that still does not change the fact their factories are run well.

As Davetractor pointed out in his post China has changed its way to high quality factories with good output, like I said before do you really think China could keep pumping out such high amounts of products at high level of quality if they treated their works like dirt? It's just not possible; you need happy people to get the job done of high volume manufacturing.

You ask me what my motives are? I don't have any, I came across the post and found it interesting what most people ASSUMED, since I had been down more than once I figured I would share what I saw while down in China.

I guess I figured sharing my experiences made sense considering the topic

 

[RoyJackson]

JDCAN, I did expect you were involved in trade, based upon your posts. I also thought you were younger since I don't think you're aware of history.
Nothing personal, I just think you're a bit naive when it comes to economics...assuming you want the US to remain a strong and viable country.

If the US wasn't so far in debt to china, we could make waves in the WTO because of holding their currency at such a low value. We dare not because of that debt. If china demanded payoff in a short period of time...well, the US governemnt would be bankrupt (I think it already is by many standards). That debt isn't the fault of the chinese though.

There's a lot of folks who put the dollar (or yuan...or whatever other currency you think of) ahead of love of country. Our loss of manufacturing ability will cost this country it's place in the world. We're losing it because we're not protecting it.

And, of course, it goes beyond love of country... How are we to employ our youth? There's only so many fast food joints or minimum wage jobs available. So...gangs...that's one way for them to make a buck (more then minimum wage too, I'd guess). Of course, there's all those pesky problems of crime...violence, etc , etc. resulting from gangs.
Of course, these are all internal problems that short sightedness cannot or will not address.

Well, this post is kind of off topic.. And this thread has gone on for 13 pages. I'm amazed it hasn't been closed yet.

 

[Builder]

Daedong isn't Chinese.
They are Korean.

BTI

Thanks for the correcton, but you understand the point I'm making.

JD is creating a huge labor savings for themselves by telling the American workers who built their tractors for the last 100 years to "shove-it" and didn't even pass the savings of the cheaper Chinese labor on to the customer. The savings go to a few mega-rich while a whole generation loses great manufacturing jobs.

Big business and our own government has irreperably damaged our nation as a whole and now our American children will suffer the consequences of a Chinese dominated world.

We are becoming the next Europe. A very sad prospect.

 

[turbo36]

Turbo36 in regards to your comment of "What companies do you personally know of in the US that pratice slave labor?

Take a look here Secret Child Labor in America Very interesting read on child slave labour like conditions all over the USA.

Then when you finish that read and still don't believe it happens in your own backyard go visit Google and do some searching.

You will find all nations are guilty of this type of work including good OLD USA.

The difference is in the US and Canada child labor is illegal and the exception and eventually these people will be caught and prosecuted. In China it is accepted practice and if you bribe the the local communist officials they will look the other way.

You are young and see trade with China as a "Noble cause" the reality is you are living off the labors of a depressed people and that is immoral in the teachings of the bible and unacceptable per the writings of Adam Smith in the "Wealth of Nations".

 

[MikePA]

...and didn't even pass the savings of the cheaper Chinese labor on to the customer. The savings go to a few mega-rich while a whole generation loses great manufacturing jobs.

Guess they couldn't have done this so they didn't have to raise prices?

 

[JDCAN]

The difference is in the US and Canada child labor is illegal and the exception and eventually these people will be caught and prosecuted. In China it is accepted practice and if you bribe the the local communist officials they will look the other way.

You are young and see trade with China as a "Noble cause" the reality is you are living off the labors of a depressed people and that is immoral in the teachings of the bible and unacceptable per the writings of Adam Smith in the "Wealth of Nations".

Turbo36 do you have selective reading? China is part of the WTO , they ADHERE to the same rules as USA. Your talk about the differences are silly and unfounded. Chinas rules for child labour is no different than USA, you should read up before you blurt out such silly claims. In your past post you asked for examples, which I clearly provided you. What did you come back with? You didn't even follow up according, you just jumped to another topic make more wild claims.

As for the comment of living off the labours of depressed people, you have got to be kidding? Once again myself and many others that have visited the mainland have explained these people are very happy. Turbo36 no offense at all your posts have made no sense and hold no fundamentals other than your personal views that are clearly wrong. Once again assume what you like, but I am sharing first hand experiences that suggest different from your wild hollywood views. I am not trying to make you accept China as a friend, I am trying to save you from looking foolish with such rubbish.

Turbro36 no offense bro, this is a nice message board, no need to take personal attacks and calling me immoral. In my feeling you are getting way too personal and carried away with this topic.
This is a perfect thread were members here need to agree to disagree. Please keep the calling me immoral stuff out of it if you don't mind. Who says I am immoral? You? That is a pretty low comment considering you have no idea who I am or what I am about. The irony is it's another assumption on your behalf with no substance, must like the views you have shared on this topic. You clearly have no experience with China yet you have such wild claims. Chill bro

Royjackson I did say a few pages ago I was an importer. I am no different of an importer than the typical american consumer. While I import goods and sell them on a bigger scale than the average consumer, the average consumer buys the imported goods for personal use, making them importers also on a different level.