Massey 3 point hydraulics issues

[shona13]

G,Day hoop de doo JWR. funny Handle!
Just as well you did not ask about the 2660hd , I have never heard of it in Australia or should I say Western Australia anyway no smart a!!!!!se comments intended.
I have been working on Masseys most of my working life and I rekon I know them pretty well this includes things you wont find in a book hydraulic ,engine mods etc.
I am now at the stage in my life where I can do whatever I want and at present I live in the country growing Macadamias and restoring all model tractors for customers.

My favourites are the english Masseys and the West Australian Chamberlain tractor, Generaly made for broad acre farming .

If You search you tube you will see The tandem Chamberlain Built by the farmer himself She is a mighty machine I First saw the tractor in action at a field day What a mighty sight, the roar of the six cylinder gm and the rear tractor with the three cylinder 72 series , I was very impressed So of course that got me real interesed and I knew someone who had a super 70 and I managed to find a super 90 after searching for eight months and lots of travelling next challenge is to build one the same .

Your tractor going by the photographs looks like it has the same pump as the 231s a mark three scotch yoke but I would not be sure.
Thats all for now .:thumbsup:
Keep Smiling .
Happy Days
Hutch.

 

[Mike476]

My 135 does the same thing in "transport", which to get to you have to go past the last detented position. It will lift my 7 foot back blade another 6-8 inches and the pump will make the noise you describe while in this position.

 

[JWR]

G,Day hoop de doo JWR. funny Handle!
Just as well you did not ask about the 2660hd , I have never heard of it in Australia or should I say Western Australia anyway no smart a!!!!!se comments intended.
I have been working on Masseys most of my working life and I rekon I know them pretty well this includes things you wont find in a book hydraulic ,engine mods etc.
I am now at the stage in my life where I can do whatever I want and at present I live in the country growing Macadamias and restoring all model tractors for customers.

My favourites are the english Masseys and the West Australian Chamberlain tractor, Generaly made for broad acre farming .

If You search you tube you will see The tandem Chamberlain Built by the farmer himself She is a mighty machine I First saw the tractor in action at a field day What a mighty sight, the roar of the six cylinder gm and the rear tractor with the three cylinder 72 series , I was very impressed So of course that got me real interesed and I knew someone who had a super 70 and I managed to find a super 90 after searching for eight months and lots of travelling next challenge is to build one the same .

Your tractor going by the photographs looks like it has the same pump as the 231s a mark three scotch yoke but I would not be sure.
Thats all for now .:thumbsup:
Keep Smiling .
Happy Days
Hutch.

Very interesting indeed. I'm a retired engineer and never was the depth of mechanic that you obviously are. My MF2660HD is only a year old. It's around 70HP at the PTO and about 9000 lbs or so with the loader and bucket. That tractor is pictured in my TractorBYNet Profile with a front mounted cutter up in a tall patch of bushes. The smaller red one that I am standing by in these posts is a 1954 Massey Harris Pacer which I began driving at age 11.

Understand you are in Western Australia. My next door neighbor spent most of her life near Melbourne, Aus. teaching school and has moved back here to live with her brother in old age.

Unfortunately my farm (been in the family over 100 years) is about 300 miles away in the steep hilly area of West Virginia. Here in Southern Md. I actually live a stone's throw from the waters of the Chesapeake Bay on the East coast of the US.

I'm headed to the farm tomorrow to get my tractor from the shop after a blown clutch and shuttle shifter linkage gone awry. Had lots of trouble with it in the first year. I'll be out of computer contact for a week or so.

 

[JWR]

My 135 does the same thing in "transport", which to get to you have to go past the last detented position. It will lift my 7 foot back blade another 6-8 inches and the pump will make the noise you describe while in this position.

Apparently it is a well-known noise. The guy shoa13 from Australia described the mechanism is great detail. I'm not real sure that my 2660HD (1yr old) is exactly like the older Massey Fergusons in the 3pt lift area but I imagine it is similar. Mine is extremely loud when the clanking noise occurs.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Hi all
well I have not heard such a lot of drivel for a long time .

The 231s has a Scotch yoke pump,two horizontal pairs of Pistons driven via bronze camblocks and the main drive shaft which includes two cams,as the shaft rotates the pistons oscilate offering a POSITIVE Displacement hydraulic system if you like.
The mark three pump as is fitted to this tractor has a response /Pressure control unit on the side of the pump ,If you remove the right hand sideplate ,the one with the response lever and the dipstick ,start the tractor and operate the hydraulics with an implement on the three point linkage,you will see the control lever in action.
The response plate is spring loaded you can see the spring which sounds like it is either broken or as I suspect not there,if this is the case operate the response by hand and CAREFULLY raise and lower the tpl.

When the pto is selected a sliding gear connects the rear spline on the hydraulic pump shaft to the pto shaft and yes the system could be described as live hydraulics the only time the pump stops with the engine running is when the clutch is fully depressed that is to engage/disengage the pto
The main pump body is secured by two dowel pegs which can be seen on either side of the gearbox .
The fact that there is a four cylinder pump being driven via the pto clutch plate then through the bottom of the gearbox then to the pump means that there are four separate shafts connected via splines to a piston pump.
The clatter ,rattle happens when you move the position control lever to constant pumping you will hear the relief valve hissing then as you move the lift lever back towards the TRANSPORT position as has been said ,somewhere around that point you will get the rattle which will dissappear when you lower the lift arms as said about 1/8 to 3/16 inch this happens because the control lever has been asked to hold the lift arms in this position which it will do perfectly ,move the position control lever further down and the hydraulics will respond ,they will not go up or down until you move the lever.
The RATTLE is caused by the fact that there is a camshaft driving hydraulic pistons ,a camshaft that has four splined or sleeved connections all which have running clearances and consequently by the time the pump camshaft reaches the pto clutch all these connections MAGNIFY the pulsating effect of the pump also the cam blocks rattle a wee bit all this is caused by the fact that the pump is brought UP TO THE POINT of constant pumping.
The Draft lever is used when plowing where you need to have draft control of the implement that is to Automatically control the depth of the plow and also shed some of the weight of the plow to the wheels thus improving traction a quick check of the draft is say you have the brushhog on the tractor ,put the position control lever in the transport position and leave it there then slowly move the DRAFT lever down ,if the hydraulics have been adjusted correctly the implement will FLOAT where the two draft marks are on the draft quadrant if not move up or down till the implement FLOATS
then carefully ,keeping all things living away ,including feet and legs ,by hand lift the brushhog up and push it down it should maintain the height you put it at if so all is good .
I hope this helps all who read .
Regards
Hutch .

P.S. Only kidding about the drivel
great to hear all points of view ,this is what makes the site fun :laughing:

Are you saying that the MF231s has a hydraulic pump like the old TO- series Fergusons? That's what I'm hearing. I didn't see that in the parts diagrams but maybe I didn't look close enough.

 

[donhartman]

Okay !

So I have this 231 with the hydraulic issues .

I have not made any adjustments as of yet or taken any action of repair. For for the lack of a more definitive cause. I did look at the hydraulic external adjustment for the position control setting. This is were you mark the lift arms and cover casting when in constant pumping . Then you lower the position control to the transport mode . The marks should separate by 1/16 to 3/16 of a inch. This failed miserable . I had to lower the position control to the bottom third of its motion to get any movement. I did not check the draft control setting or the response control yet .

Pages from service manual

Pages from the manual

I will look at the response control spring as mentioned previously . Any other ideas on how to narrow down the cause ? I would prefer to narrow this down before tearing into it . I fear a blind attempt at a repair without knowing the exact cause might not help me out much.

Hutch
I will do as you mentioned in your post in the next day or to and post back the results. Thanks

Thanks
Don

 

[Mike476]

I had to make similar adjustments to the stop on mine. This adjustment was made after I had checked the lift piston and pod (had been contaminatd with sludge from the oil) and reinstalled the cover. The hyd fluid had been contaminated, not only with water from cracked boot shift levers but from my over-greasing the three point lift arms. It wasn't lifting / travelling to what the manual said were were its limits.

The hardest part of the job was removing the top cover, not because its particularly complicated but because it weighs a ton and most of its weight was aft. If I were to do it again I would be looking at using a hyd lift or block & tackle.

 

[shona13]

G.Day mike 476.
I would say that you now know how heavy the lift cover is and I hope other members and readers take note the risk of serious personal injury plus the damage that can be done to the tractor does not bear thinking about, I am only to glad you survived and hope as you say the next time use an engine hoist or chain block I hope you got it fixed o.k after all your efforts ,if not just ask in the site .
Incidentally the hydraulic lift cover in the photograph is of a mark two pump different to the mark three in the 231.
Regards.:thumbsup:
Hutch.

 

[shona13]

Hi donhartman .
Good idea dont rip things to bits just go gently as i have said take the sideplate of and tell me what you see inside I will carry on from there ,note when you remove the sidecover temporarily replace the bottom bolt this will stop the oil leaking out also no need to rev the cr!!!!p out of it when testing.:thumbsup:
HappyDays .
Hutch.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Okay !

So I have this 231 with the hydraulic issues .

I have not made any adjustments as of yet or taken any action of repair. For for the lack of a more definitive cause. I did look at the hydraulic external adjustment for the position control setting. This is were you mark the lift arms and cover casting when in constant pumping . Then you lower the position control to the transport mode . The marks should separate by 1/16 to 3/16 of a inch. This failed miserable . I had to lower the position control to the bottom third of its motion to get any movement. I did not check the draft control setting or the response control yet .

Pages from service manual

Pages from the manual

I will look at the response control spring as mentioned previously . Any other ideas on how to narrow down the cause ? I would prefer to narrow this down before tearing into it . I fear a blind attempt at a repair without knowing the exact cause might not help me out much.

Hutch
I will do as you mentioned in your post in the next day or to and post back the results. Thanks

Thanks
Don

Don,

Have you got your 3 pt working correctly and if so, what did you find was the problem?