Massey Fergesson 1754

[Randy W]

Help! My 2017 Massey 1754 just got its 4th hydraulic pump installed.What on earth is going on? Dealer is stumped.very expensive replacing pump every 30-40 hours recently.No to mention not having my tractor for weeks at a time.The only thing I’ve been using machine for is moving dirt or gravel around our acreage,with the exception of 3-5 hours each spring I hook up and use my Bush Hog 150 model boom mower.I currently have roughly 425 hours On this tractor.Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am on the verg of no longer being able to own and operate this tractor any longer.Thank you in advance

 

[JWR]

Well first off you should not be paying for any hydraulic pumps after the first one replaced !! Either you are doing something seriously destructive to pumps (which seems unlikely) or else defective pumps are being installed. The circumstance you describe is over the top crazy. Get the Regional Service Rep for MF involved ASAP ! No doubt you are long past any warrantee but I think the regional service rep should (and will) be helpful in getting to the bottom of this.

 

[Harry in Ky]

There will obviously be some differences between gear drive and hydrostat tractors, possibly a few other options involved as well. It might help if you passed on a few of those details.

Assuming (if you're moving dirt) it probably has a loader as well? Tractor came with loader installed? Any hydraulic parts changed, added, removed, modified prior to all the pump failures? Quite often some of those things improperly done will have consequences.

That said, what's happening to the pumps? How are they failing? Most common short term failure in a gear pump is too much constant pressure in the system. Usually doesn't happen for no reason. Is it always the main section that fails with no problems with steering or the other way around?

I think after four pumps I would be plumbing a pressure gauge into the line between the pump and the first component. I'd want to see just what the pressure is with tractor sitting still, engine running at various RPM settings, no functions in use. Then start adding in different functions to see what happens next. You have to start somewhere?

 

[Randy W]

There will obviously be some differences between gear drive and hydrostat tractors, possibly a few other options involved as well. It might help if you passed on a few of those details.

Assuming (if you're moving dirt) it probably has a loader as well? Tractor came with loader installed? Any hydraulic parts changed, added, removed, modified prior to all the pump failures? Quite often some of those things improperly done will have consequences.

That said, what's happening to the pumps? How are they failing? Most common short term failure in a gear pump is too much constant pressure in the system. Usually doesn't happen for no reason. Is it always the main section that fails with no problems with steering or the other way around?

I think after four pumps I would be plumbing a pressure gauge into the line between the pump and the first component. I'd want to see just what the pressure is with tractor sitting still, engine running at various RPM settings, no functions in use. Then start adding in different functions to see what happens next. You have to start somewhere?

Thank you so much for quick response. The 1754 is indeed hydrostatic and has had no work or modifications done to it except the Hydraulic pumps.When I quizzed my dealers service manager after the 3rd. One failed, he said he disassembled the pump only to fined it completely destroyed on the inside.I’m assuming the rest of the pumps were similarly affected?

 

[Randy W]

Thank you so much for quick response. The 1754 is indeed hydrostatic and has had no work or modifications done to it except the Hydraulic pumps.When I quizzed my dealers service manager after the 3rd. One failed, he said he disassembled the pump only to fined it completely destroyed on the inside.I’m assuming the rest of the pumps were similarly affected?

as you questioned it does have a factory loader.Only other equipment I infrequently use is a twin cylinder grapple 72” Grizzley which hasn’t been used in two years, a woods back hoe which hasn’t been used in 5 years which runs off the pto and has its own pump, and a bush hog 1550 boom mower that is used once per year for 3-4 hours, and also has its own hydraulic pump system.Doesn’t seem like I’m abusing this beautiful tractor,but it’s not liking something?

 

[Harry in Ky]

Well, I maintain that something is causing a great deal of pressure in the system. Possibly all of the time considering the results. Open center gear pumps are designed for intermittent high pressure loads along with brief periods of greatly reduced pressure to allow the pump's internals to cool a bit.

I don't know what the mechanics are doing to trouble shoot the problem, but someone's missing something here. You need to have a gauge in the pump pressure line to monitor what the system pressure is during times of use as well as times of (what should be) little or no demand. That would be my first order of business. It probably will require some custom work on lines or fittings, but in my opinion a good starting point.

 

[Randy W]

Thanks again Harry!Today I hopefully will be able to talk to the service manager where I purchased my 1754 Massey.One additional fact that I have forgotten to bring up in this forum that may be of significant value!When I purchased this tractor and had it built for me, I insisted on the platform option as opposed to the Cab option as My 18 acres is quite heavily wooded which would have destroyed a cab model.The cab models come with one set of rear hydraulic remotes where as the platform models come with none, so I had to have my dealer install one pair of remotes on the rear after the tractor arrived here in Michigan from Japan.Wondering if possibly they could have been installed incorrectly?What are your thoughts on this possibility?

 

[Harry in Ky]

That's certainly worth looking at. Is it a LIKELY problem? I can't say because I don't know what's involved in that operation on your particular model. If it was done with O.E.M. parts and instructions, then probably not, but who knows?

I'm wondering when did the first pump fail, and how many hours were on the tractor at that time? I would assume the remote valve add on was during predelivery? If that were the problem it should have been shortly after that.

In most cases a sudden "excess pressure" situation is brought on by some changes made to the hydraulic system. Often when this is done by someone who doesn't fully understand what the natural order of hydraulic flow through the system SHOULD be. Hard to say just yet if that might be a part of this problem or not.

At any rate I can't stress enough the need for a pressure gauge in the system while all this is being sorted out. In this type of situation that's always my first move. I want to see what that gauge reads before and after any experiments, changes, repairs, etc are made and when all is said and done I want to see that pressure at somewhere next to nothing when no hydraulic functions are being used.

 

[Dmacleo]

Thanks again Harry!Today I hopefully will be able to talk to the service manager where I purchased my 1754 Massey.One additional fact that I have forgotten to bring up in this forum that may be of significant value!When I purchased this tractor and had it built for me, I insisted on the platform option as opposed to the Cab option as My 18 acres is quite heavily wooded which would have destroyed a cab model.The cab models come with one set of rear hydraulic remotes where as the platform models come with none, so I had to have my dealer install one pair of remotes on the rear after the tractor arrived here in Michigan from Japan.Wondering if possibly they could have been installed incorrectly?What are your thoughts on this possibility?

they forget to put a return/bypass in when installing that or if they did are you connecting it?

 

[Randy W]

That's certainly worth looking at. Is it a LIKELY problem? I can't say because I don't know what's involved in that operation on your particular model. If it was done with O.E.M. parts and instructions, then probably not, but who knows?

I'm wondering when did the first pump fail, and how many hours were on the tractor at that time? I would assume the remote valve add on was during predelivery? If that were the problem it should have been shortly after that.

In most cases a sudden "excess pressure" situation is brought on by some changes made to the hydraulic system. Often when this is done by someone who doesn't fully understand what the natural order of hydraulic flow through the system SHOULD be. Hard to say just yet if that might be a part of this problem or not.

At any rate I can't stress enough the need for a pressure gauge in the system while all this is being sorted out. In this type of situation that's always my first move. I want to see what that gauge reads before and after any experiments, changes, repairs, etc are made and when all is said and done I want to see that pressure at somewhere next to nothing when no hydraulic functions are being used.

Thank you so much again Harry your expertise with hydraulics is very apparent.I went to dealer today and spoke with both the service manager as well as my sales man, and both agree that some extensive research must take place soon to try and resolve this problem.we have a plan now much like you have described, and all three of us agree that the Bush hog boom mower use is the potential pump destroyer.I believe it’s a model 1445, and very heavy.The tractors three point Struggles to lift it more than a couple inches, but enough to allow me to retract the legs that support the unit when in use and Then reextend the legs when finished mowing .the service manager and sales fellow are brothers, and part owners.they are great guys and very talented. They are thinking that after lifting this heavy mower I’m not releasing the hydraulic lever when working for several hours thus causing possible over heating and super high pressures destroying the pumps.Seems reasonable and understandable to me.Hopefully we’re on to something?