Tractor Sizing MF 4707 versus Kubota M5?

[Sid Post]

A few non-specific thoughts:

• John Deere and Kubota dealer support are much better than other options
• I have sandy and wet loose land to work traction in that ground is important
• 70Hp is a low as I want to go but, PTO Hp doesn't need to be huge either for mowers and balers (nothing over a 12' bat-wing ever envisioned with a 7' medium duty rotary being 99% of mower use)
• Loader capacity is important to me, meaning sheer lift weight occasionally and smooth operation for normal mundane tasking
• Good ground engagement in firm soil is required for tillage

I like the MF 4707 for not needing DEF and a really good build with a heavy frame and axles. It also has some really nice features like a 3-point function on the fender and declutching on the shift lever among a couple that seems very user friendly. What I am less enthusiastic about is the view blockage by the loader arms, specifically the rear posts which are pretty tall restricting views of the obstacles and terrain in front of the tractor.

The Kubota M5 (probably 91Hp) seems to be competitive. I don't know anyone that owns one or anything larger than the 7060 actually. I own a B2601 and L4600 myself so I am familiar with the brand and find the L4600 to be generally over-rated though it is a great tractor (I should clarify, my L4600 is light in the rear even with Rimguard and weights, the front end is a bit light for the loader capacity, the center of gravity is a bit high and, it is a bit narrow for work on sloped). This makes me a little skittish about Kubota's large tractors. The engines, drivetrains, and hydraulics are very good so, I am somewhat attracted to them over other brands.

For anyone that has operated or been around these two options, how would you compare and contrast them? For use around trees, corrals, buildings, etc., does one have a real advantage over the other?

TIA,
Sid

 

[K5lwq]

I have not operated either tractor but based on the information you provided the M5 is the direction I would go in. Mainly because of Dealer support in your area and higher HP.

 

[daugen]

Sid, I owned the 4707 in NC on my farm and was very pleased with it. The comparable JD was 25 grand more.
My biggest challenges were with the small but very nice MF dealer. His techs were barely ok and had little diagnostic experience.
Versus the larger JD dealer that clearly knew their products. I had left Kubota due to a bad dealer experience there, even worse help
problems at that dealership. The industry at least there was not paying as well as it should and the techs got better paying jobs elsewhere.
With benefits.
So Deere became the only safe choice if I were to have done it again and learned that by repeated disappointments coming out of Kubota and Massey
dealer service. I also had a diesel JD garden tractor, an X750, and I could see the different ways each dealership handled their work.
The Kubota service manager admitted to my face his place was "out of control". It sure was.

But near you, could be the same tune but different players.

remember that for under two grand you can jack up the 70hp Massey to 100hp. JD doesn't take kindly
to anyone doing anything apparently to their engines.

If the sight lines bother you, that would be a deal killer for me. I wish oems offered front and rear camera systems
from the factory to help us out.

 

[Hay Dude]

IMO, and as a farmer, I would bet the Massey is probably more designed purely for farming, while the Kubota was designed to do farm chores and utility chores.
I own 2 larger M series Kubotas and have yet to find any limitations as to what they will do other than overall weight of the tractor. I have cast rear rims, but still look forward to adding cast weights to help with stability when loading upper layers of round bales.
I wasnt crazy about MF moving production of smaller tractors to China, but thats more of a personal quirk thing with me, so I went with Kubota on my smaller tractors.
We have an extremely competent MF dealer in my area and I really like my Euro-built (France) MF7495.
AGCO has excellent support for Massey Ferguson, Fendt and Heston.
I dont know if the smaller MFs utilize any Fendt assemblies, but my 7495 has a Fendt CVT, rear axle, brakes, etc. Essentially, the core of mine is the same as a Fendt. However, Instead on a MANN Diesel, it has a SISU diesel and of course a MF cab.

If money were no object, Id have 3 Fendts with MANN diesels

 

[Sawyer Rob]

IMO, and as a farmer, I would bet the Massey is probably more designed purely for farming, while the Kubota was designed to do farm chores and utility chores.

I would bet you are right in that thinking...

SR

 

[daugen]

If money were no object, Id have 3 Fendts with MAN diesels

That would be the Mercedes lineup in tractors...

Though a 6 or 7 series JD with a straight six JD diesel is easy to like.

Yes, I think the Massey is more crop and hay oriented. In my case, hard to be unbiased going from a 57hp Kubota hydrostatic to a 70hp
powershift. For loader work, the hydro made me a better operator. A lot less jerky at times, particularly with loader and man cage up in air
trimming trees. Gosh I wish someone would break the industry rule about hydros larger than 70hp. Kubota's hydro electronics are cutting edge, just
more power please in a larger frame. For some of us with lower hour use, fuel efficiency is just not a big concern.

 

[Hay Dude]

If money were no object, Id have 3 Fendts with MAN diesels

That would be the Mercedes lineup in tractors...

Though a 6 or 7 series JD with a straight six JD diesel is easy to like.

Yes, I think the Massey is more crop and hay oriented. In my case, hard to be unbiased going from a 57hp Kubota hydrostatic to a 70hp
powershift. For loader work, the hydro made me a better operator. A lot less jerky at times, particularly with loader and man cage up in air
trimming trees. Gosh I wish someone would break the industry rule about hydros larger than 70hp. Kubota's hydro electronics are cutting edge, just
more power please in a larger frame. For some of us with lower hour use, fuel efficiency is just not a big concern.

If hydro big HP is the goal, you might be able to find an old IH Hydro, but very little in creature comforts.
The MANN Diesel engines in Fendts make incredible power at very low RPM and that saves fuel.

 

[Sid Post]

Sid, I owned the 4707 in NC on my farm and was very pleased with it. The comparable JD was 25 grand more.
My biggest challenges were with the small but very nice MF dealer. His techs were barely ok and had little diagnostic experience.
Versus the larger JD dealer that clearly knew their products. I had left Kubota due to a bad dealer experience there, even worse help
problems at that dealership. The industry at least there was not paying as well as it should and the techs got better paying jobs elsewhere.
With benefits.
So Deere became the only safe choice if I were to have done it again and learned that by repeated disappointments coming out of Kubota and Massey
dealer service. I also had a diesel JD garden tractor, an X750, and I could see the different ways each dealership handled their work.
The Kubota service manager admitted to my face his place was "out of control". It sure was.

But near you, could be the same tune but different players.

remember that for under two grand you can jack up the 70hp Massey to 100hp. JD doesn't take kindly
to anyone doing anything apparently to their engines.

If the sight lines bother you, that would be a deal killer for me. I wish oems offered front and rear camera systems
from the factory to help us out.

I talked to a dealer that has a dyno at their shop and used to carry the Massey line. They are well versed on the trial and tribulations of impending financial collapse and the poor quality control and dubious design decisions made during that time. He did say that they tested an unmolested MF4707 in the shop and dyno 80HP at the PTO. And yes, if I needed more HP, that new generation engine which I believe is a FIAT design is a very good one and easy to turn up if you need the extra power.

John Deere is the brand I grew up with. JD of my youth and JD today have little in common IMHO other than paint color and the name. And yes, John Deere has a big reputation of what happens IF you want to work on YOUR tractor YOURSELF. And don't you dare touch that PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE!

For Kubota, I shopped the 4 dealerships within ~30 miles of me that I went to when shopping for a B2601. One dealership got ruled out in the showroom as the salesman was a complete and utter idiot and I won't be going back for any reason I can foresee today. The second dealer is a multi-brand dealership and the salesmen really push one of the other brands so, I assume there are incentives there and, locals have warned me about their service shop being a bad one. The third shop is one I use almost exclusively for Stihl products and support and is a very good LARGE tractor dealership with a lot of hay equipment in stock. I'm not sure I would buy a small tractor there but for an M4/M5/7060/MX/etc. are most likely where I would go. When shopping for a rotary cutter for my B2601 they were upfront that they could order one but, it would not be cost-effective for me to buy it there. The fourth dealership is the one I bought 4' rotary cutter from. They are a super small tractor dealer and do a good job with bigger tractors for county road crews and similar construction users. They aren't a big "Ag" dealer but, they know the big tractors pretty well.

After looking at the JD 5100E and MF4707 at the Oklahoma dealer and a Kubota M5-91 locally, I liked the M5 and 5100E both pretty equally for the cab layouts and features. The used JD 5100E would be at least $10K more expensive plus the cost of Euro mount conversions on my existing SSQA attachments. Sitting in them really demonstrated something you will never get from a catalog or website, the Kubota has a bit more sight obstruction over the nose than the MF4707 but, the sightlines to the sides of the tractor and the front tire was much better on the Kubota not mention the loader arms being much higher up as well which blocked sightlines in the front quadrants in addition to the cab corner posts.

It is a little thing but, the Kubota cab includes the "Massey Visio" options standard at no extra cost. Whether that is useful to me is debatable. The Kubota lacks the convenience of the 3-point controls on the rear fender and includes the 540E PTO on all tractor configurations which is an extra cost on the Kubota unless you opt for the 12-speed transmission.

The bevel gear front end on the Kubota seems like a good idea but, I'm unsure if it really is any better than the Massey or JD MFWD system.

 

[Hay Dude]

I talked to a dealer that has a dyno at their shop and used to carry the Massey line. They are well versed on the trial and tribulations of impending financial collapse and the poor quality control and dubious design decisions made during that time. He did say that they tested an unmolested MF4707 in the shop and dyno 80HP at the PTO. And yes, if I needed more HP, that new generation engine which I believe is a FIAT design is a very good one and easy to turn up if you need the extra power.

John Deere is the brand I grew up with. JD of my youth and JD today have little in common IMHO other than paint color and the name. And yes, John Deere has a big reputation of what happens IF you want to work on YOUR tractor YOURSELF. And don't you dare touch that PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE!

For Kubota, I shopped the 4 dealerships within ~30 miles of me that I went to when shopping for a B2601. One dealership got ruled out in the showroom as the salesman was a complete and utter idiot and I won't be going back for any reason I can foresee today. The second dealer is a multi-brand dealership and the salesmen really push one of the other brands so, I assume there are incentives there and, locals have warned me about their service shop being a bad one. The third shop is one I use almost exclusively for Stihl products and support and is a very good LARGE tractor dealership with a lot of hay equipment in stock. I'm not sure I would buy a small tractor there but for an M4/M5/7060/MX/etc. are most likely where I would go. When shopping for a rotary cutter for my B2601 they were upfront that they could order one but, it would not be cost-effective for me to buy it there. The fourth dealership is the one I bought 4' rotary cutter from. They are a super small tractor dealer and do a good job with bigger tractors for county road crews and similar construction users. They aren't a big "Ag" dealer but, they know the big tractors pretty well.

After looking at the JD 5100E and MF4707 at the Oklahoma dealer and a Kubota M5-91 locally, I liked the M5 and 5100E both pretty equally for the cab layouts and features. The used JD 5100E would be at least $10K more expensive plus the cost of Euro mount conversions on my existing SSQA attachments. Sitting in them really demonstrated something you will never get from a catalog or website, the Kubota has a bit more sight obstruction over the nose than the MF4707 but, the sightlines to the sides of the tractor and the front tire was much better on the Kubota not mention the loader arms being much higher up as well which blocked sightlines in the front quadrants in addition to the cab corner posts.

It is a little thing but, the Kubota cab includes the "Massey Visio" options standard at no extra cost. Whether that is useful to me is debatable. The Kubota lacks the convenience of the 3-point controls on the rear fender and includes the 540E PTO on all tractor configurations which is an extra cost on the Kubota unless you opt for the 12-speed transmission.

The bevel gear front end on the Kubota seems like a good idea but, I'm unsure if it really is any better than the Massey or JD MFWD system.

The bevel gear system should bring the front axle up higher than a straight thru design. It is also sealed from water. They do, after a long time experience seal failure, which I can attest to. It also allows for tighter turning, which can be incredibly handy for farming.
The 3 point controls on the rear fender were an easy plug & play on my Kubotas. They came standard on one side. I added them to the other side.

 

[Sid Post]

The bevel gear system should bring the front axle up higher than a straight thru design. It is also sealed from water. They do, after a long time experience seal failure, which I can attest to. It also allows for tighter turning, which can be incredibly handy for farming.
The 3 point controls on the rear fender were an easy plug & play on my Kubotas. They came standard on one side. I added them to the other side.

If the M5 has 3-point controls on the fender, I totally missed them in the rain. That would be a great feature me so, another good point for the Kubota.