More than 1 Permatran 821 XL choice now ???

[AxleHub]

Greetings,

A year ago at my dealer's open house I discovered something about the 5 gallon AGCO PermaTran 821 XL Hydro/Transmission fluid that is recommended for many Massey tractors. At the time I posted it right away on TBN because the initial shipment had hit my dealer's location and the dealer service tech's didn't know anything about the change that I had spotted. AGCO was just initially starting to convert its PermaTran 821 product to a blended synthetic and I provided pictures and descriptions to show how users could identify the small differences in the labeling and the types of product benefit of the new choice for the same price.

Well now its a year later and the story has yet changed again. Now there is the blended synthetic product that I first described last year - but now there are yet 2 more 5 gallon 821XL products out. the 1st new product is the blended synthetic with new labeling that shows it much more noticeably and clearly that it is a synthetic (in other words, same as last years new product). But now there is yet another new product labelled as "Extended use" synthetic Permatran 821XL.

Now I don't know about you - but I don't get it - a synthetic version makes complete sense to me and is a real benefit when initially running in cold weather startups. That's good.

But if its already a 250 hour change timeframe synthetic - what can the "Extended Use" product offer (both types have same suggested change timeframes) ? Let's recognize that unlike engine oils - where burning and big heat are issues - hydro fluid doesn't wear out like engine oil - it gets dirty over 250 hours of use and needs to be changed - not because of heat breakdown etc..

Anyone have suggestions who would eagerly buy "Extended use" hydraulic fluid over the revised synthetic Permatrain already available ?


P.S. A year ago I had considered using the Kubota UDT? product which is synthetic (benefits in cold weather) - until I found last year the change in the Permatran product which had become synthetic also. By the way - the Kubota product is substantially more expensive than the PermaTran product (about 40% more than the PermaTran 821XL synthetic).

 

[onionfmr]

What's the difference in price between the extended and regular synthetic Permatrans products? I agree that probably the main reason to change hydraulic fluid is because it gets dirty not that it breaks down. I agree again, so extended isn't going to get dirty in the same time frame?

I went with the semi-synthetic Permatrans last year to attempt to workaround a problem that I was having with my MF1754. I was surprised that my HST tractor is actually noisier then when I was running conventional fluid.

 

[ray66v]

Many of us have been using "extended use" hydraulic fluid for many years.

It's called Amsoil ATH.

The rest of the oil is just starting to catch up now.

Hydraulic oil desn't necessarily get "dirty" in 250 hours, and need to be changed. It depends a lot, on how you use your tractor. Mine primarily moves snow, hauls mulch for the flower beds, and occasionally some gravel. It doesn't engage the ground very often, so there isn't much dirt to contaminate the hydraulic fluid. I am considering the idea of never changing the hydraulic fluid again. Although, I will throw a filter on it at some point.

There is an advantage to using synthetic fluid in the cold. But, if you look at the specs, it doesn't become a big factor until it's extremely cold.

 

[def38]

As pointed out by some, hydraulic/gear oils do not suffer from by products of combustion as do engine oils. However, hydraulic/gear oils do shear and as a result, change viscosity. Also, there are anti-oxidizers and corrosion inhibitors that may be depleted with time along with seal conditioners and anti friction additives. I would change your transmission oils at the intervals recommended by the manufacturer. Merely changing the filter may not provide any benefit.

 

[ray66v]

The product I use, is made for extended intervals. And, those who have done oil analysis, have shown it is good for much longer than 250 hours. That's good enough for me.

Everyone else, do as they like.

I certainly am not interested in an oil debate. Never saw one yet that settled anything.

 

[def38]

The product I use, is made for extended intervals. And, those who have done oil analysis, have shown it is good for much longer than 250 hours.

Premium products provide premium performance in the form of extended drain intervals and other benefits. The only way to tell if your oil is doing its job is a UOA. No debate needed.

 

[AxleHub]

Is hydraulic fluid "an oil" ? Yes I understand it's made of synthetic or actual petroleum products. But it isn't called "an oil" on the container and transmission or hydraulic fluid are not described as "oils".

I always thought that oil testing done on big trucks and construction equipment was done on engine oils. . . . Not on hydraulic fluids and transmission fluids.

What have I got wrong with this scenario?

 

[def38]

Oils, Hydraulic fluids, cooling oils and other critical fluids are often analyzed to determine how well or poorly they are working and when they are at the end of their useful service life. Truck fleets, heavy equipment fleets and others use UOA to determine wear metals, fuel contamination, filter performance, water intrusion and other parameters that influence wear, imminent failures, fluids performance and to reduce costs. UOA is not just for engine oils. I have had the GL5 gear oil from my BMW motorcycle analyzed to determine the condition of the bearings. FYI, I run synthetic engine oils in every engine I own except the Caterpillar 3126 in the motor home and the Perkins in the Massey Ferguson. Those two diesel engines get Mobil Delvac 1300 15W-40 and are changed at factory recommended intervals. All my gear cases run 75W-140 synthetic GL-5 gear oils, usually Supertech (Wal-Mart house brand).

 

[goeduck]

Is hydraulic fluid "an oil" ? Yes I understand it's made of synthetic or actual petroleum products. But it isn't called "an oil" on the container and transmission or hydraulic fluid are not described as "oils".

I always thought that oil testing done on big trucks and construction equipment was done on engine oils. . . . Not on hydraulic fluids and transmission fluids.

What have I got wrong with this scenario?

Chevron calls it oil

Hydraulic Oils and Hydraulic Fluids | Chevron Industrial Lubricants

 

[ray66v]

Is hydraulic fluid "an oil" ? Yes I understand it's made of synthetic or actual petroleum products. But it isn't called "an oil" on the container and transmission or hydraulic fluid are not described as "oils".

It is by clear definition, "oil".

Calling it "fluid", or anything else, on the label, does not change that.