vtsnowedin
Elite Member
Ahh but we are talking about the tractor "As it is used" and the center-line of the wheel and tire plus weights is seldom exactly in line with the center of the hub bearings so there is a moment arm to consider.
Ballast Need help with wheel weights for Kubota L3830
- Thread starter Joe013
- Start date
vtsnowedin
Elite Member
The more I think about this the more right you are and the more wrong I'm getting. The only difference I can see now is that it will require more torque to turn the steel weighted wheel vs. the fluid ballasted one.
art
Super Member
No the opposite, the fluid filled tire is out further from the axle then a wheel weight is.
vtsnowedin
Elite Member
But the fluid doesn't go up and over with each revolution it just flows down and the tire rotates around it.
Bluegill2
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2012
- Messages
- 1,870
- Location
- Success Missouri
- Tractor
- Kubota L3800DT, L3750DT Shuttle
Math can can be a tricky thing.
In reality any weight added to the rim, or tire, cast iron or fluid is transferred to the ground, not the tractor. It will take more power to get the whole mass rolling either way...
Bluegill2
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2012
- Messages
- 1,870
- Location
- Success Missouri
- Tractor
- Kubota L3800DT, L3750DT Shuttle
Wheel weights are round and centered with the hub, so it doesn't take much power to spin them. Equal weight distributed around the hub.
What does take more power is the extra weight pressing down on the ground. Fluid or iron doesn't matter much.
Gary Fowler
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 11,998
- Location
- Bismarck Arkansas
- Tractor
- 2009 Kubota RTV 900, 2009 Kubota B26 TLB & 2010 model LS P7010
Almost everyone has some right theories IMO. My take is that adding weight to the tire rim in form of water doesnt increase the HP required to turn the tire significantly. I will defy anyone to tell the difference in force required to turn an empty tire vs a fill tire if mounted on a tractor. Water runs down hill with very little resistance on a smooth surface like the inside of a tire.
NOW as to force on the bearings, setting still there would be none as long as the weights didnt stick out past the outside edge of the tire. Many of the larger Ag tractors will have weights stacked 10 deep on each side and stick out significantly past the wheel. This would put some pressure on the bearings to hold the tire, rim and weights up even when setting still. I doubt that any CUT owner is going to go that far with wheel weights so for our situation, I would say there is not significant bearing load on the tractor due to added weight when setting. When in operation that is a different story, especially if using a FEL. You can put the entire wheel weight on the rear axle and bearing if you have sufficient hydraulic power to lift the rear end with the FEL. This could also put significantly more pressure on the front bearings due to the excess weight on the tires. A rear ballast box or other significant 3 PH load removes some of that weight from the front and puts it on the rear axle due the the double lever action. Quick explanation of that: A tractor with FEL has 2 fulcrum points, front axle and back axle and two levers, the fel distance from the front axle to the bucket and the rear axle distance to whatever you have hooked on the lift. Now loading the 3 point hitch with ballast reducesd the front axle load, but increases the rear axle load where as loading up the tires with weight and ballast does nothing for taking weight from the front axle, it just allows you to put more load on the front axle without raising the rears off the ground. This could be disastrous to the front axle if you put a lot of tire weight on and carry heavier loads with the FEL without some rear 3 PH ballast. I hope I cleared this up to consistancy of mud.
NOW as to force on the bearings, setting still there would be none as long as the weights didnt stick out past the outside edge of the tire. Many of the larger Ag tractors will have weights stacked 10 deep on each side and stick out significantly past the wheel. This would put some pressure on the bearings to hold the tire, rim and weights up even when setting still. I doubt that any CUT owner is going to go that far with wheel weights so for our situation, I would say there is not significant bearing load on the tractor due to added weight when setting. When in operation that is a different story, especially if using a FEL. You can put the entire wheel weight on the rear axle and bearing if you have sufficient hydraulic power to lift the rear end with the FEL. This could also put significantly more pressure on the front bearings due to the excess weight on the tires. A rear ballast box or other significant 3 PH load removes some of that weight from the front and puts it on the rear axle due the the double lever action. Quick explanation of that: A tractor with FEL has 2 fulcrum points, front axle and back axle and two levers, the fel distance from the front axle to the bucket and the rear axle distance to whatever you have hooked on the lift. Now loading the 3 point hitch with ballast reducesd the front axle load, but increases the rear axle load where as loading up the tires with weight and ballast does nothing for taking weight from the front axle, it just allows you to put more load on the front axle without raising the rears off the ground. This could be disastrous to the front axle if you put a lot of tire weight on and carry heavier loads with the FEL without some rear 3 PH ballast. I hope I cleared this up to consistancy of mud.
Well I have a L3800 and I wanted some Ballast so I could drop the back hoe and use the loader to get fire wood out back on my land. I had Rim Guard put in my tires. Night and day on the traction,I did not need the 4wd in some spots where I did before. Rim Guard adds around 11lbs per Gallon. It prevents rim corrosion and is biodegradable. I have heard it is beet juice but I have nothing to back this. Calcium Chloride is bad news it rusts out steel quickly. I don't know how weights are I do know this worked out great for me.
Bluegill2
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2012
- Messages
- 1,870
- Location
- Success Missouri
- Tractor
- Kubota L3800DT, L3750DT Shuttle
Tire ballast does not take the place of 3pt hitch ballast for loader work. Doing fel work with no 3 pt ballast will kill the front axle components. May take a few years to see the damage.