Need PTO expertise-mount blower on front

[smiley]

I'm in the process of installing an 8 ft snowblower on the front of my Massey Ferguson 399 and have run in to something I don't have much experience with, short PTO shafts. If you can see it in the photo, the output shaft of the reverser on the front of the tractor, is about 7 inches higher than the input shaft of the blower. The shaft will only be about 18 inches long including the u joints, so will have a pretty good angle on it when the blower is working in the lowest position. Can anyone with knowledge on this subject tell me if there are going to be any problems with running the shaft at this sharp of angle. If absolutely necessary, I can move the reverser back and lay it on it's side to lengthen the shaft and get it more in line with the blower input shaft, but that complicates matters greatly.
Thanks for any info.
Smiley

 

[oc3crwler]

double cardan joint might work

 

[KWentling]

So is the reverser running off the rear PTO? Can the reverser be lowered to get it more in line? How about mounting a shaft in pillow block bearings above the snowblower input shaft that would connect to the PTO and chain driving down to the blower? That's the setup my Kubota front mount has only it is dropping it down instead of up. If you google driveline angles you can probably find what the maximum running angles are.

Kim

 

[JerryK]

If you look at most factory front mount blowers that run off a 2k RPM mid PTO, they have a couple of sprokets and a chain to lower the 2k down to ...say...540ish. You could do a simular thing and run your PTO shaft straight out, then drive the lower blower shaft via chain. You want to keep the PTO shaft as straight as possible, especially a short one. Doesn't take much up/down movement on the implement to increase the angles. Most PTO angles over 15 degrees shorten the life span of the U-joints under load drastically.

 

[arrabil]

If I'm looking at that picture right, that is too extreme for even a double cardan.

 

[smiley]

The morer I study this, the confuseder I gits. From what I'm finding , a great deal depends on the design of the joint itself, from a minimum of 15 degrees to a maximum of 45. Apparently good design generaly calls for as little as possible, preferably less than 30. Here's a site that covers it pretty well.
Couplings and Universal Joints - Types of flexible couplings
I will be right in the 30 range the way it's presently set up with the blower down in the working position, to about 0 degrees when raised. I'll study it a little more before deciding. If necessary, the reverser can be moved to the rear which is what it was designed for. The reason I'd prefer to mount it in front is I could leave it mounted in the summer and just remove the chain from the rear PTO drive, where if it's in back, I'd have to remove the whole unit to use any other PTO equipment.

So is the reverser running off the rear PTO? Can the reverser be lowered to get it more in line? How about mounting a shaft in pillow block bearings above the snowblower input shaft that would connect to the PTO and chain driving down to the blower? That's the setup my Kubota front mount has only it is dropping it down instead of up.
Kim

Yes it drives from the rear PTO via a shaft to the front. I will consider mounting a jackshaft on the blower itself. That would eliminate the angle problem. Also considering moving the blower further forward to lessen the angle.

 

[Redneck in training]

Another thing to consider is an angle between the drive and driven shafts. Ideally they should be in line or parallel. If they are not parallel then the driven shaft will have variable angular speed in each revolution. In other words it will go two quadrants faster and two quadrants slower than the drive shaft. If the driven equipment has large mass (large inertia) it will put stress on the drive mechanism. In such case you shouldn't use cardan but constant velocity (homokinetic) joints. CV joints can handle larger angle than cardan joints.

 

[smiley]

I figured out what to do with this project. By moving the blower forward about 7 inches, it lessens the angle to about the 15 degrees. That will put more strain on the snowplow lift that raises it, but if necessary, just behind the reverser you see in the photo, is a 50 ton winch. I think that will raise the blower OK.

 

[Randyr3554]

How about making a frame to hold the blower but with a joint so it can be lifted, and use an electric 12 volt winch to raise it. I saw a front blade like that recently on a Ferguson TO30.
For powering it someone makes a pto gearbox to send the power forward, use an old rear wheel drive driveshaft with adapters to fit it on to the output and input shafts, and with u-joints at each end.
My pack rat bro-inlaw has 5 shafts in his shed, all long enough strong enough, maybe he'd give me one.
An alternator with lots of amp capacity would be needed to run the winch.
Here's an available kit, maybe they would adapt it to different machines or sell just the gearbox and shaft.
Lorenz Front Mount Kits

 

[smiley]

How about making a frame to hold the blower but with a joint so it can be lifted, and use an electric 12 volt winch to raise it. I saw a front blade like that recently on a Ferguson TO30.

----------I already have a 50 ton hyd winch on the front but am not using that. Am using an electric/hydraulic snowplow lift, as it gives me angle capability when I'm using the plow I mounted 3 years ago.----------

For powering it someone makes a pto gearbox to send the power forward, use an old rear wheel drive driveshaft with adapters to fit it on to the output and input shafts, and with u-joints at each end. My pack rat bro-inlaw has 5 shafts in his shed, all long enough strong enough, maybe he'd give me one.

------------I'm using a chain drive from the pto to a 1" shaft running to a pillow block and u joint in the middle, to a reverser mounted on the front bumper and skid plate under the front axle.----------------

Here's an available kit, maybe they would adapt it to different machines or sell just the gearbox and shaft.
Lorenz Front Mount Kits

-----------That's a nice rig but I'd hate to see the price. I think a hydraulic conversion might be cheaper. Through scrounging, I'll wind up with about $150 in my conversion. Most of that ($100) is in a reverser I bought from another member Piloon, while visiting my inlaws in Canada. If I hadn't found this reverser, I was going to use one off a field chopper or a Ford Ranger front differential, as a reverser.
I am waiting on a smaller drive sprocket (found sprockets online at about 1/3 the price of TSC) and will be finished this week hopefully. I'll post a full write up with photo's as soon as it's done.
Smiley