Oil & Fuel New diesel rules

[Jibber]

Today the EPA proposed some of the most sweeping changes ever in off-road diesel engine use. The changes would start with 2008 models, and all bulldozers, farm combines and other diesel-powered equipment not used on roads must have modern emission controls by 2014. Cleaner burning diesel fuel would have to contain 99 percent less sulfur by 2010.

Does anyone know what ramifications this might have on older diesel equipment? Does that mean that my brand new 2003 Kubota will not be able to run the new diesel fuel within a few years? I'm taking for granted that the 99% reduction in sulfur content would be phased in BY 2010.. Dieselforum.org offers some information.. but nothing about older equipment.

2010 seems like a long time away.. or is it? I plan to have this tractor for a long time.

ps.. more info on this can be had at:

http://www.epa.gov/nonroad

 

[Darren]

If you look at the engines in Class 8 trucks you'll see that several mfgrs are switching over to EGR equipped designs. One, it may be Mack or Cat, went a different route. the off-road stuff will have to meet the same/similar? standards in the future.

Some buyers scrambled to buy the left over non-emission engined trucks while they could rather than wait and buy into any unknowns associated with the new designs. At least one mfgr, cummins, tried to address reliability concerns, via the warranty.

The fuel itself is a different issue. Low sulphur diesel doesn't have the lubricity of a high sulphur fuel. In some cases, uses of extremely low sulphur fuel has led to premature failure of injection pumps. I'm not sure what that means for anyone with "old" equipment. You can buy additives that improve the lubricity. After 2014 you may want to do that.

The other issue is that the injections pumps on larger equipment often use the engine oil system for lubrication while the smaller engines use a self lubricated design which means there is no connection with the engine oiling system but the diesel fuel itself is relied on for lubrication.

 

[OkieG]

I believe most newer tractor diesel engines (including mine which is 6 years old) are designed to use "low" sulfur fuel. In the case of my JD 24hp, the manual recommends fuel with sulfur <1/2%. Fuel with more sulfur than that can be used, but requires more frequent oil changes.

Someone will respond to your question that definitely knows the answer. Although our late model engines might not meet the upcoming emissions standard (they shouldn't have to), next to no sulfur in the fuel might be tolerated OK.

OkieG

 

[OkieG]

Hi Darren,
You were posting while I was. You must be the guy I was refering to who would know the answer. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Do you think fairly new tractors that recommend using low sulfur fuel in the first place, will have trouble with the very low sulfur fuel that may be coming? My impression was the need for the lubricating properties of sulfer were minimized or eliminated in our newer engines?!

OkieG

 

[chrisjbell]

Out here in California they've been phasing out "gross emission" diesels for a while now. The way they've been going about it so far is to buy old equipment at pretty good prices or (in the case of some of the big agricultural water pumps) letting farmers replace them without permits.

Whether that will continue or not is anyone's guess...I just spent some time on the ca.gov web site trying to find details but there's so much crap out there it would take forever to sift through it. I'm sure that some folks know where to get the info, but nothing has impacted me yet so I'm not one of them.

 

[Jibber]

I guess we could probably count on the industry putting out additives for any protective benefits lost in the low-sulfur fuel. Several manufacturers still make lead additives for older cars forced to use unleaded gas.. i.e. Moroso and the like..

 

[frank_f15]

i am no expert on this subject, but i would imagine it is not a majior concern. my ol ford needed LEADED gas so i just bought lead additive and mixed it. if it does cause a major problem, there is going to be one hell of an awfull lot upset people.

 

[cowboydoc]

It won't be a concern. All you have to do is use an additive to increase the lubrication additives of the fuel. They already do this to a large extent. The oil injector lubrication is nothing new. They have been doing it in Fords since 95. The new Dodges and Chevy also have the same system.

You certainly don't have to worry about your new kubota. Newer tractors are already designed to work with low sulfur fuel. If you add something like Standadyne or Power Service you've already increased the lubricity of the fuel 10x anyway.

 

[Darren]

I'm not the one with the real answer. If you want a good answer you'd have to call a company like Stanadyne which is an OEM for diesel injection systems and talk to an engineer. It's not difficult and one of those guys can tell you more in five minutes, off the record, than you can find over a period of days or longer searching the internet, if you find anything.

I've always got the info I needed when I took the trouble to go to the source. Never, ever get stuck talking to customer service. IMO, their job is to keep you from "wasting" the time of the folks who really know. I usually find the folks doing the real work are more than happy to talk to an actual customer.

As others have said there are additives that can restore what the EPA mandated away.

 

[JATO_RaT]

As I mentioned in another post, here in California we are already using very low sulphur diesel. Those that had injector pumps on their last legs, failed. For about 3 months there was a lot of whining and complaining about the new reduced and more expensive diesel. Now you never hear about pump failures due to the lack of sulphur. Most folks do not use a additive either. Rat...