New guy with a Ford 1500 diesel start/run problem.

[Beansoup]

I inherited my dad's tractor last summer. I used it several times while he was living but only run it twice in the past year - September or October. It sat since then with a full tank of fuel, outside but covered with a couple of tarps.

I thought it always cranked slow so before I went to start it last week I went ahead and hooked up jumper cables to a running vehicle. The old man always turned the glow plugs on and gave it a shot of ether for first start, no matter what the weather. So I did all that too. It cranked about as usual (what I think as slow but maybe that the way tractors crank) and gave a bit of a big puff at the very first. I figure that was the ether.

It took a lot of cranking until it started and then it chugged like a steam engine pulling a coal train uphill. With each chug came a puff of dark smoke out of the stack. It would only run at full throttle position but it was that slow chugging. As soon as I backed off even a hair on the throttle it quit. Now it won't start at all. I tried again yesterday (it was a hot day so figured it might help) but nothing. It cranked and gave that first louder puff with the first turn-over. And with each chug it puffed out dark or black smoke. I tried cranking it without ether and, except for that first louder puff, it acted the same.

A feller up the road, used to farm a little (not with a diesel), told me to put some "dry gas" in the tank, let it sit a day and try it. That didn't work. Another feller, has a auto repair shop said he knows a little about diesels and it might be bad glow plugs. But he said that first louder puff is usually the ether hitting a hot glow plug. He said the black smoke meant it was getting fuel.

I only get to make the 30 mile run to town once a month and tomorrow's the day. There's an auto supply store there where I can get a meter to check voltage on the plugs, some 911 fuel treatment, and a new fuel filter. Since there's been no mechanical work done on it I wasn't thinking about timing or anything like that. I'm just a retired banjo & mandolin player and know very little about tractors and engines and such, and less than nothing about diesels.

What do y'all think?

 

[topbuilder]

Ether - Bad. Whatever Dry gas is, Bad.
Replace the battery. Check all filters. Drain the fuel and start over. Do not crank so long as to over heat the starter.

 

[TractorTech]

Hope you didn't use too much ether as you might have bent the connecting rods or damaged the pistons. Ether could have also damaged the injectors or pre-combustion chambers. None of it is good news.
Ether in the first place shouldn't have been necessary if the glow plugs were working properly.

 

[Beansoup]

Thanks for the replies guys. You got me wondering in the glow plugs ever worked. It has always needed a squirt to start according to my dad, even in the hottest weather.

When he bought it the wiring had all been cut up and rewired. There are lots of splices and sometimes a line changes color more than once during its circuit. The original heat assist indicator is gone and the light that he was told was it is supposed to be the oil pressure light. It does come on but I don't get any voltage at the plug. The connections aren't clean either so as soon as we get a little break in the weather I'll take the wires off the plugs and clean them.

I also ordered a book that I hope will prove useful. I really want to get. and keep, this guy alive and well. It's a great worker.

 

[Beansoup]

Well, don't you just hate when a guy comes on, asks a question about a problem, then never comes back? I don't want to be that guy, so: I got a big giant service manual but the summer was not a good one. My mom lives with me now and I'm her sole 24/7 caretaker. I won't go into it but she is 100% dependent on my help. And I had some of my own issues this summer. But I did manage to get out and troubleshoot that glow plug circuit a few days ago.

Both glow plugs and the indicator test good, but I found that both wires to the glow plug indicator were going to the same terminal of the starter switch. Yep, both on #17. And the glow plug wire went to terminal #19 instead of #17. So the whole time my dad had this thing, the glow plugs never worked. No wonder he said he always had to use starter fluid. I took all the connections apart and started cleaning them (the battery too) but was interrupted by a sudden heavy rain storm. It's still raining and today's temp was 37. Two days ago it was 74. The next good day the battery comes out and goes on the charger, I'll finish cleaning the connections, including starter connections, and put it all back together.

The fuel is old but I'm going to try to start it before draining the completely full tank, changing the filter, and bleeding the injectors.

Sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

 

[square1]

Once it's running the glow plugs & battery are out of play. From the sounds of it there's a fuel starvation problem too. It's only going to get colder for the next few months, may as well address the issue now.
Best wishes and +1000, never ether & glow plugs, just never!

 

[Beansoup]

"never ether & glow plugs, just never!"

Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun to see someone else do that?

What you say about the fuel starvation makes sense. I was thinking about that during the few minutes that it did run that day. But because it puffs smoke while trying to start, I started wondering about bad fuel. When I got my car inspected I mentioned it to the mechanic and he said diesel rarely goes bad. I bought a fresh can of fuel and new filter for if it doesn't start when I get the glow plug circuit back together. The rain has stopped and it's 45 degrees this morning. I'm hoping it'll warm up a little and the wind dies down so I can at least get that accomplished.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Once it's running the glow plugs & battery are out of play. From the sounds of it there's a fuel starvation problem too. It's only going to get colder for the next few months, may as well address the issue now.
Best wishes and +1000, never ether & glow plugs, just never!

 

[vvanders]

We've just acquired a '81 diesel 1500 recently, don't claim to be an expert. One thing I've noticed is you can feel a bit of heat coming from the "Cold Start Indicator" when you turn the key counter-clockwise. Certainly had to start without working glowplugs!

 

[bspeedy]

Share some pics of the old tractor if you have the chance. I'm the proud owner of my dad's 1700, the not-much-bigger brother to your 1500.

Good luck getting her running. As the others have stated, ether is a no-go. When cold, mine will not start without the glow plugs. After warm-up, it starts easily. Put a good, fresh battery in it with the highest CCA's you can find. Get the glow plugs working - put them on their own momentary contact switch if the wiring harness is too much of a mess. And do spend the time to change the fuel and fuel filter. Might want to make sure the injection pump has oil in it, too.

These old Fords have some small common problems, but they will do a lot of work and are heavy built.

 

[Beansoup]

Well, here's where I am so far:
New battery. (Old one was 9 years old.)
New fuel filter. (Old one was 4 years old.)
Bled the fuel screws (3) on filter mount and injector pump.
Cleaned all electric connections: battery, starter, glow plugs and indicator.
Clean the air filter and put in new oil.

Did not bleed fuel lines at injectors.
Did not drain fuel tank and replace fuel. (Full-to-the brim but a year old.)

Voltage on glow plugs is 10.25 V.
Voltage on starter while cranking is 11.0 V (Also jumping with running vehicle while cranking just to reduce battery drain.)
Grey (sometimes black) smoke puffs out the exhaust with each crank.

Result so far: A big fat nothing. I still think it cranks too slow. (The starter is either new or rebuilt 4 years ago.)

Recall that it did run for about a minute when I first tried a few months ago. See original post.

Here's my attempt today. This is an edited video. I had the glow plugs on for 2 minutes and cranked it for about 25 seconds. I trimmed the video just to show how it's cranking and smoking. tractor01 - YouTube

I'm starting to think maybe it's an internal mechanical thing (based on how it ran in that first post) and the starter can't overcome it to crank fast enough.

Thoughts?