New Holland vs. Deere

[SSG]

I am interested in some unbiased and, of course, biased opinions concerning tractors in the 45-65 hp PTO range. I am looking at the 4WD versions of the TN65D, and the TN75D versus the Deere 5310 and 5410 with cabs. For every feature the New Holland dealer extolls, the John Deere dealer can refute, and vice versa. I need a tractor to spray round-up or the like on about 50 acres of up and bottom land on the Yadkin river in the Piedmont of NC, then to prepare the soil to change from Johnson grass infested corn fields to Orchard grass. Ultimately, I'll pull a square bailer, but would like to have the capability to pull a small round bailer. The tractor will be used for utility work around the farm including some light loader work.

Any thoughts: Are John Deere wet sleeve engines better? Are wet sleeve engines more susceptable to o-ring fracture and major engine malfunction? Are the placement of the Deere controls for forward reverse and loader joystick on the right hand better or worse than the New Holland arrangement of F/R at the left and loader joystick on the right? Is the resale of a New Holland a problem? Is the country of origin a factor in tractor quality? Is it difficult to service a Deere's air filter? Is it easy to serivce a New Holland air filter? Is the Deere worth about $3000 more?

And what about Kubota in this size range?

 

[W5FL]

NH drivers are better looking

No, it is not IMHO. I had no brand loyality when I started looking except my dad had a John Deere.

There is a BIG difference in the tractors you are comparing. I started out to buy the John Deere 5410 and researched all of the 10 series very carefully. I would highly recommend a very good dealer if you order one. The reason is that you really have to know what you are ordering and there are many many very important options. In MOST of the 10 series, the standard tire is way too small for the tractor. The dealers know to oversize them to get the correct tires on front AND rear. The option to get from a stock tractor to be able to use a loader requires another $800 option to get two sets of hyd outlets. If you want the loader to hook on in the center of the tractor, it takes another option for midmount couplers. Then you need to buy two more sets of hyd couplers. There are three loaders for this tractor and quite a bit of difference in price for them. The extendable 3 point bars are also not included in the basic price and IF you don't order them with the tractor they are twice as high.

Unfortunately, I found some of the same problems in trying to figure out a 50-65 HP New Holland. To my surprise at the time I was looking at them last year, there were two models in each range and a big difference in them. This may have been caused by mergers and acquistions causing two different brands to now be painted blue. I could not find a local dealer that could sort it out for me, but I tried for weeks because our neighbor had a FORD and had good luck with it. The TN is the good series from New Holland. The only prices I could get at the time were $20,550 for the 4WD TN65 tractor and 44195 for the loader. He said that was with the standard transmission which I believe is a full synchronized transmission like the Kubota. The engine is quite efficient at 179 ci. One remote is standard. The mid mount couplers are optional. The turning radius is considerably better (10.5 ft) on the NH vs 14.3 on the JD. Kubota is 12.1 ft. NH has better looking drivers in their brochure than John Deere. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I had a 40 HP Massey Ferguson 2WD at the time and after driving it for the past 6 years, I had a really good idea of the things that were important to me. The Massey was pretty easy on fuel and that was important to me.

I had never touched or seen up close an ORANGE tractor at that time, but wound up buying the 68 HP M6800SD 4WD 2000 Model with loader and quick release bucket. All the options I wanted were standard and the entire package including ballast (non/toxic antifreeze in tires) 50 hour service, etc was $27,000 delivered. Couldn't do that with John Deere and never quite sorted out New Hollands tractors.

If you have a good local dealer, it will probably be a lot easier, but ask questions about everything. Just look at the tires and say , "is this standard tire or what options are available. Then touch the next thing you can find and ask the same question. The answers will amaze you. A good dealer will be quick to point out these things IF YOU LET THEM. Once they see that you want something, most will not even try to discourage you or pursue the subject further.

 

[SSG]

Re: NH drivers are better looking

Thanks for the thoughts. I am arming myself with questions, and am going to set out for the Kubota dealer this week. My Deere dealer did offer the same information concernig the tires, and strongly reccomends the larger wheels.

 

[W5FL]

Re: NH drivers are better looking

Since you didn't ask about the Kubota, I tried to answer what you asked. I could write 10 pages about the M6800SD Kubota. Since I chose it over the NH and JD, it obviously fit my circumstances better. All three companies make good tractors. None of the tractors are made in the USA. All have some degree of assembly in the US, but the major components of all of these tractors are non USA manufacturer. Not necessarily bad, and it has been that way for many years.

Do a search on the M6800 and there is quite a bit written about it already. It is a good tractor and the improvements for 2000 are very significant, although the price did not increase. Kubota seems to build very good engines and they are very clean burning. The JD 5410 that I looked at did not run well after starting and the dealer said the new air pollution controls made it run bad until it warmed up. The Kubota runs fine from startup. The new engines run very clean compared to older engines on nearly all tractors. In another thread, a lot of users posted their hr/gallon diesel mileage. As I remember there was not a very large spread going from 18 to 68 hp - a little over 2:1. I would suspect the JD 5410 will burn more fuel as it has quite a large cubic inch engine since they started putting the 4 cyl in it instead of the 3 cyl, but no one posted any actual fuel consumption numbers for the JD. You will just have to find an owner and ask. You can tell a little by just comparing the size of the gas tanks. Nobody puts a 28 gallon tank on a tractor that uses 1/2 gal/hour. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

The M6800SD also comes with a very good loader. You have to buy the quick detach kit for the bucket. This comes standard on the JD. The Kubota is a very good value, has high horsepower and is in a small package. That is a very versitile combination for a utility tractor. The weights shown in the brochure are higher for the JD, but my fully outfitted weight with loader and filled tires is about 8000#. That is about all I care to carry on a 12,000# GVW trailer. I always thought it was interesting to see the recommended weight/hp ratios that the tire manufacturers recommend. Kubota hits right in the recommended range. Have to get that much power on the ground to be effective if you are pulling heavy loads. Good luck in your search.

Not a single comment on the NH driver on the brochure. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[SSG]

Re: NH drivers are better looking

I had to go back to the brochure to appreciate your opinion on the drivers. I however, have to be careful with my comments since my wife is a covergirl for some of these publications (Popular Mechanics, Oct. 82; Chevy Cavalier sales brochure, 1983; and Ford light trucks sales brochure 1985) and she gets jealous of the competition.
I again appreciate your comments and will report back after I see the Kubota.

 

[W5FL]

Re: NH drivers are better looking

I thought it might help sell her on a nice tractor since the one she is driving is a 4WD gear tractor. Kubota and John Deere photos look like they are really working and have genuine pot bellies and everything. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[SSG]

Re: NH drivers are better looking

Okay, now I've really become confused. For the same price as a New Holland TN75D (cab version), and less than the Deere 5310 Cab, I can get a more powerful M9000 Cab tractor in orange. New Holland says the mechanical disc brakes are surely going to fail, while the NH and Deere both use the more sophisticated hydraulic self-adjusting brakes. The Deere folks say the Kubota "parent bore" engine tecnology is archaic, but several users I have spoken to say that the old Ford tractors with that technology NEVER gave out. There are also several Kubota owners who have told me that they just don't have engine problems. How about torque rise? Are kubota tractors underpowered from the torque standpoint?
As before, any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[jgh]

Have you bought yet? I went thru many of the same machinations you appear to have.

2 things stand out about NH (I did not seriously consider Kubota, sorry Wen & Bird): on-demand FWD, which really reduces yard damage, and Supersteer, which you have to experience to believe. Wen said something to me in another post about his 6800 having a similar turning radius to NH TN tractors with SS. But Wen neglects the turn AROUND diameter---it can turn around inside of its own length, LESS than the turning radius.

The cab on the TN tractors are shorter and more comfortable, too. Can't comment on Kubota. I did note that the transmission options on Kubota are very different from the others. Do your own comparisons.

I am about to take delivery of a TN90F, very different in subtle ways from the ones you are looking at, but I researched the TEN and TN series extensively. Both are quality machinery, but the Deere is IMHO several years behind NH in technology. And skip the Synch shuttle on the JD. You will understand what I mean if you compare it to the NH manual shuttle, but I would opt for the power shuttle (or JD Power Reverser).

Gotta turn in.

Good luck,
Jim

 

[ejb]

>>I would opt for the power shuttle (or JD Power Reverser).

I gotta agree with this one, I ended up with a Power reverser on my JD5410, even though I was only going to get the syncshuttle option (the dealer cut me a deal 'cause he had one on the lot). Very glad I did...especially when doing loader work or rotary cutting back and forth around the edges of my fields (i.e. backing under all of the overhanging trees). It is an expensive option, but if the wallet allows it is wort it.

 

[SSG]

Jim,
I just bought this Saturday. Neither the NH or the Deere, but a Kubota M9000. It worked out better for a number of reasons. One big one is that my next door neighbor has bought so many tractors and implements from the Kubota dealer that he is regularly making house calls, and is happy to add my farm to his visitation for problems that might occur (I know Deere and NH never have problems so you don't need someone to come out, but what about the cutters and balers, etc?). I also like the power advantage in the same price point (80 PTO, 90 gross engine HP). Engine accessiblity is somewhere between the incredible design of the NH, and the less accessible Deere. Cab comfort is excellent, although I could not find a Deere cab to try. The sync shuttle was much smoother on the Kubota than the NH. The Kubota is taller by about 8 inches which may mean less stable, but the dealers never brought that up as an issue. The fuel tank in the Kubota is a monsterous 29 gal, while the engine is theoretically quite efficient- intercooled turbo at 202 cubic inches. So I went shopping for a NH or a JD and came home with a Kubota. I do plan to get a NH baler this winter.
Please see my post at "owning a Kubota" I would appreciate your thoughts on the stuff we drag behind our tractors- "Bush hogs on rough fields"
Steve.