Buying Advice New or Used?

   / New or Used? #1  

Tree Farmer Steve

New member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
11
Location
Woodland WA
Tractor
Trying to Decide
So, I've already learned 10,000% more than I knew a few short weeks ago. In large part due to the help I received on this forum. (Yes I'm talking to you Jeff). I'm going Hydro, most likely Kubota and trying to get something around 4K lbs tractor weight. This puts in a new MX. What I'm wondering, is buying used a viable option? Resale on these machines is shocking me frankly so that indicates there must be value there. What do look for? What do I stay away from. My local Kubota dealer has an L3940 that needs a new hydro pump they took in on trade and are refurbishing. Should I consider this or a other used?
Second question and piece of advice I need is tires. All dealers seem to push Industrial but I'm wondering if ag may be better for me. I live in the PNW and we're known for wet weather for a reason. My land has come areas with steep slopes and I need all the traction I can get for pulling heavy logs. I don't plan to mow my lawn with a 4K lbs tractor so I'm not worried about grass but what other reasons would one have for going with industrial vs. ag? As always, that you all for the help!
 
   / New or Used? #2  
You can find some good deals used with some patience. If your not worried about messing up grass go Ag tires. Industrial tires last longer if you do a lot of on road traveling.
 
   / New or Used? #3  
You can find some good deals used with some patience. If your not worried about messing up grass go Ag tires. Industrial tires last longer if you do a lot of on road traveling.

And put emphasis on patience. It took me about a year of looking before I found the tractor I had specced out. I needed at least 40HP, ability to lift 1,000 lbs on the FEL and well maintained for under $15K. I got 50HP, ability to lift 2,000 lbs, well maintained for $12,500. It did not have that new tractor smell. I bought an 8" chipper and a 5' tiller with the $$ left over.

And dealing used you need to know some mechanics, have the money ready and work at looking.

The bargains are always there but sometimes very elusive.
 
   / New or Used?
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Can you tell me where you looked? I've had trouble finding local websites and publications. Most of the equipment on the popular websites are in the Midwest or or Northeast. Thx
 
   / New or Used? #5  
Craigslist, Public Surplus , vendors mentioned here, Govt sales.
The M4700 I ended up buying was through Public Surplus owned by a local county.

/edit ebay is a good tool to check especially for completed auctions.
 
   / New or Used? #6  
Can you tell me where you looked? I've had trouble finding local websites and publications. Most of the equipment on the popular websites are in the Midwest or or Northeast. Thx

Craigslist, ebay, facebook . Your area may be a little drier than most judging by the lack of ones I see listed on CL there. Id keep ck with all the dealers, kubota and Deere withen 150 miles.

Here are a few examples of what is common down this way.
215 MX52DT - farm & garden - by owner - sale
Kubota Tractor with Loader - farm & garden - by owner - sale
Kubota MX51 - 2wd w/ Loader - farm & garden - by dealer - sale
Kubota M68 2X4 Utility Special W/ Loader Low Hours Great Condition - farm & garden - by owner - sale
 
   / New or Used? #7  
For your needs, stay away from industrial (R4) tires. You will be greatly disappointed. They do not have the traction of AG tires. You'll end up needing tire chains.

As for used VS new... as you noticed the resale value is darn near new. If you can, swing for new, with warranty, and rest assured if for some reason you ever decide to change machines (larger, smaller, different color, etc...), you'll get a good price.

Or, as my wife and I did, we bought a very used large machine, and beat the heck out of it on all the large projects on our remote tree farm. Then, when the large tasks were completed, we sold it and downsized to a "property maintenance-sized" machine. That suited our needs well.

Just beware that used machines can come with their own set of problems. The first question I've always had on used anything is, "Why is the seller selling?"
- They need a larger machine? (did they beat the smaller machine before realizing this?)
- They are moving?
- Someone got old, passed away, etc...
- Divorce (hey, it happens).
- Repo?
- Took in on trade?
lots of reasons.

As mentioned, new or used, take your time! Don't rush into anything. Do your research and do as many test drives as you possibly can to get a feel for the machines.

Good luck in your search. :thumbsup:
 
   / New or Used? #8  
That's one of the reasons I like the local government/small town and county auctions.
<snip>
Just beware that used machines can come with their own set of problems. The first question I've always had on used anything is, "Why is the seller selling?"
- They need a larger machine? (did they beat the smaller machine before realizing this?)
- They are moving?
- Someone got old, passed away, etc...
- Divorce (hey, it happens).
- Repo?
- Took in on trade?
lots of reasons.
<snip>
Sometimes I see the reasons for selling are "reached standard replacement time". There is one county near me that replaces their small trucks based on the mileage. Last year they had an auction of about a dozen Ford Rangers 2wd, 2004 to 2008, all that had just broken the 100,000 mile mark. Most were immaculate with an occasional ding. All had been well maintained by the county. Most sold for about $4,000, well under book.

Then there are the counties that will let equipment sit outside deadlined for years before they sell it. Maybe hoping it will rot in place.
 
   / New or Used? #9  
I'm just south of you an hour or so and know your weather. As long as you stay on your property, or haul it if you have to go far on the road, the ag tires will suit you fine. The R4 tires are a bit more stable, but the R1 tires will bite in out in the woods on the grassy, weedy, slippery mud.

I'm still looking for my new tractor, but I've made the choice to go new as the used market out here in the west, seems quite bleak. There are "new" tractors on the lots that have what they call "rental" hours on them but are sold as new since they have not been sold yet. Well,....the people out here in the coastal regions with the hot and heavy housing and industrial/commercial markets rent these tractors and beat the holy crap out of them.

Sure, there are a few success stories of someone buying a used or refurbished tractor and having it work fine, but there are also many horror stories of the dealer not supporting the very expensive problematic used or refurbished tractor. Why did the hydro fail? Do you know the techs that will be doing the refurbishing? Did the previous owner get drunk and run it into the river or pond?

I farm for a living and spend a fair amount of time at the local equipment dealers. Not very much time at the local Kubota dealer "Pacific tractor" but enough that I have been there when people bring in their tractor with 30 hours on it that rolled over into a tree and want it fixed under warranty. People return a brand new rental with the hood smashed in from the rocks they were moving rolling out of the bucket onto the hood etc., etc. After watching hours of youtube video or people that have a phd, but dont even know how to check the oil in their car, run a loader, I'll not buy used unless I know the previous owner(s) or I can get it on a desperation sale where someone is moving tomorrow and cant take the tractor with them. But that's just my opinion on the subject.
 
   / New or Used? #10  
in my experiences, both watching my dads purchase, my own, and experience working in a public institution that sold used equipment.( Michigan State University)


-My dad probably 10 years ago bought a massey ferguson 202 work bull industrial tractor. He bought it for 6000 dollars. (its a 1964 model year i believe) He used it for his seed dealership with a set of forks. IT worked. But it was pretty beaten at the point of my dads purchase of it. He used it for about 8 years. It did have some transmission issues where the shifter fork popped out of alignment would be stuck in a certain gear, this happened a few times, but all in all it got easy to fix. Other than that, it needed one new tire, one new alternator, a new battery and just regular maintenance. IT was mainly used for snow removal, forks on the loader, and on occasions to fill in for hay baling. It got to be last year and it needed a new radiator and was starting to smoke and probably had a rebuild in the future. This prompted my dad to decide to sell. He sold it on craigslist fully disclosing the issues and its need for a new radiator for 2000 dollars. He took that and bought a new Kubota mx5200 that meets and exceeds all uses and performs better for hay than our allis chalmers d 15.

- I got about 4.5 acres a few years back and got a couple of horses and other animals and decided my lawn mower wasnt cutting it for maintaining the property. So my dad took note and let me have a older yanmar 1500 that he got a long time ago, he said i could have it, as it didnt run. I put the work in, new starter, new oils, front rim work and new front tires. Had it running good. Then winter came and it absolutely didnt want to start and the ignition switch went out. Needless to say, i sold it for 1000 dollars as is. Looked around end up buying a new kioti ck2610. As i didnt have the cash, i had to finance and got 0 down and 0% interest. For six years with a six year warranty. The lesson learned here, is that if you have the cash sure buy a used one. The older pre 2000 tractors will be cheaper but have more things wrong with them. The post 2000 tractors people ask way to much for a machine with 700 or more hours and alot of wear and tear with no warranty. MY experience people wanted 4 grand less than a new tractor for an equivalent tractor. Which that can be up to you whether its worth it for a used tractor at that price. If you need to finance i would highly recommend new. Especially since buying used and financing you could run into an issue and have to pay a payment on a tractor that needs a new clutch or something, so your paying more for maintenance on the term of the loan. If you want to look at an older pre 80s tractor go for it, for cash you can find good deals in the 5000- to 7000 range for a loader, or 2500- to 4000 without one. They may be perfect, they may need work, but at that price it is affordable to put the work in to getting them running right.




Now, to comment on someone saying buy a used municipal tractor. Run away. I worked at a university ran lots of equipment. You will never see any more poorly maintained equipment. They say they go through regular maintenance, but its half true. Often, i would experience equipment not getting even basic oil changes, (saw a gator go 400 hrs from new without one oil change) Not to mention, students drive them often and literally beat the crap out of the equipment, the philosophy being that they are not responsible for cost of repairs so screw it. I have a buddy who worked for a city, and he said much of the same.

Now, is every municipal tractor or equipment treated this way, not some do a good job. But in my experience, is they are not, because the people who run them dont care. Now a farmer more often than not will take excellent care of his equipment because he depends on it for his lively hood and and expenses come out of his pocket, (there are exceptions to this rule, but generally pretty realistic.) So i cant tell you what to do., But in my mind for a compact tractor, and the high priced used market the way it is. It is worth it to go ahead and go for new. You wont regret it when you pay it off and have a great well maintained tractor that will last you another 20 years.


Also on industrial tires, , The R1 ag tires are best for your described uses, if your going over lawn, or on hay fields, R4 industrials are a great compromise. Industrials can be improved with beet juice weight, This will really help with traction. My friend has turf tires on a kubota b, and has no issues with snow removal or mud for his use. I have R4s and they are not weighed down, so for most occasions i get by fine but when running a plow, i absolutely need four wheel drive. My dad has filled R4s and he never has issues in regards to traction( bigger tire as well(both front and rear and generally a bigger tractor overall. in the end. You just gotta get out there and experience it for yourself. Jump on some used tractors, compare to new, watch people on the side of the road doing tasks with different tire types, and keep asking questions to even people you see in your day to day life that run tractors. It will all culminate into leading you into a decision.
 
 
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