New vs. Old Dilemma

   / New vs. Old Dilemma #11  
Started with a yard sale $500 Case VAC 4 or 5 years ago as a 'technology demonstrator' and implement collector. I am reasonably mechanical and this is an easy tractor to work on (points, gas engine, generator and NO power steering). Plus, low on the collector list. No issues with the Case specific parts I needed.

Went round-and-round similar issues (save the house and truck garden). But both are out there on a future wish list. Anyhow, started at $5-10k. Then $15k (had a used 3400 Kubota with 120 hours come up). Ended up with a TN55SA (the cab was too cheap to not buy). And spent in the low 20's. Whoops. I too am on the 20 year plan. The cab will be very appreciated for 9 months of the year, and even more as a way to keep the electronics in good condition (20 years to go). But will require high clearance (too large to be ducking under the old apple tree anyhow).

I did a lot of work with a box scraper with the Case. Just took thinking ahead. Gear drive was slow to use when doing a lot of fwd/back manuevering work. New one has power shuttle (nice compromise with hst). Shuttle shift is a big step forward (even without auto clutch).

Live pto would have been very nice (new one has independent pto). Either one allows you to pause the fwd motion and still run a brush hog (etc).

The value call is a 2wd unit. MFD/4wd/etc are a premium. If winter snow removal is a significant issue (versus a rusty pickup with blade)....

Loaders pretty much need power steering if your wife is going to use it.

Older units may have 6 volt systems versus 12 volts (matters is you are going to run 12 electric accessories like a pump -- can always strap on a deep cycle battery, or use a pto powered one). The suggestion on the 3 point is also true -- my unit had just enough to lift the box scraper. It did move the 5' brush hog though. Many old IH's had 2 point hitches (convertible). A lot of older units used drawbar implements. Nothing wrong with it, and many still around (disks, plows, etc).

Wide front end is preferable. And a heavy tractor is easier to use (mine isn't particulalry heavy). That's one of many reasons old IH H & M's (and others) are surprisingly useful today.

Hydraulic pumps can be added to the PTO. Prince makes a popular unit (that's another reason to have a live pto). Not too expensive. And easy to add.

My TN will NOT be anywhere near as easy to repair as my Case -- lots of technology to consider. As to 'green farming' an older propane unit may be for you. Propane engines last a long time, put off less emissions (comparable engines of course). You might look around for some of those old vineyard type tractors too (I seem to remember NY has some wine grape areas). Might have a reasonable resale, as they are kind of odd looking and unknown.
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma #12  
Started with a yard sale $500 Case VAC 4 or 5 years ago as a 'technology demonstrator' and implement collector. I am reasonably mechanical and this is an easy tractor to work on (points, gas engine, generator and NO power steering). Plus, low on the collector list. No issues with the Case specific parts I needed.

Went round-and-round similar issues (save the house and truck garden). But both are out there on a future wish list. Anyhow, started at $5-10k. Then $15k (had a used 3400 Kubota with 120 hours come up). Ended up with a TN55SA (the cab was too cheap to not buy). And spent in the low 20's. Whoops. I too am on the 20 year plan. The cab will be very appreciated for 9 months of the year, and even more as a way to keep the electronics in good condition (20 years to go). But will require high clearance (too large to be ducking under the old apple tree anyhow).

I did a lot of work with a box scraper with the Case. Just took thinking ahead. Gear drive was slow to use when doing a lot of fwd/back manuevering work. New one has power shuttle (nice compromise with hst). Shuttle shift is a big step forward (even without auto clutch).

Live pto would have been very nice (new one has independent pto). Either one allows you to pause the fwd motion and still run a brush hog (etc).

The value call is a 2wd unit. MFD/4wd/etc are a premium. If winter snow removal is a significant issue (versus a rusty pickup with blade)....

Loaders pretty much need power steering if your wife is going to use it.

Older units may have 6 volt systems versus 12 volts (matters is you are going to run 12 electric accessories like a pump -- can always strap on a deep cycle battery, or use a pto powered one). The suggestion on the 3 point is also true -- my unit had just enough to lift the box scraper. It did move the 5' brush hog though. Many old IH's had 2 point hitches (convertible). A lot of older units used drawbar implements. Nothing wrong with it, and many still around (disks, plows, etc).

Wide front end is preferable. And a heavy tractor is easier to use (mine isn't particulalry heavy). That's one of many reasons old IH H & M's (and others) are surprisingly useful today.

Hydraulic pumps can be added to the PTO. Prince makes a popular unit (that's another reason to have a live pto). Not too expensive. And easy to add.

My TN will NOT be anywhere near as easy to repair as my Case -- lots of technology to consider. As to 'green farming' an older propane unit may be for you. Propane engines last a long time, put off less emissions (comparable engines of course). You might look around for some of those old vineyard type tractors too (I seem to remember NY has some wine grape areas). Might have a reasonable resale, as they are kind of odd looking and unknown.
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma #13  
Hi Mark,

Sounds like a wonderful plan you guys have worked out!:)

How mechanically oriented are you?

It's certainly no guarantee (as new stuff breaks too), but with age, lack of use, or an extreme amount of use, parts fail on equipment... if you are pretty handy and can diagnose & fix most of your more common wear items, a used tractor becomes more & more desireable... also important to consider is what kind of downtime can you afford on your equipment...

IF you have the income coming in to afford the payments that come with a newer piece of equipment, that would be the way I would lean, just because your focus is clear at this point: get the farm going.

"Fix the tractor" will throw more time constraints on you, whereas a warranty takes your part in the fixing out for at least a few years.

Best of luck!
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma #14  
Welcome.:D :D :D

So you need a tractor for the long haul???

Look over all the jobs it's required for and pick out what size and attachments would be needed. Remember it could be used for some jobs building the house. The loader is mandatory, not optional. Then do some looking around. [ shopping ]

Look some more and revise you requirements several times!:D :D :D Shop some more.

Then pick the tractor for the long haul and take your budget lumps Early instead of later.:D :D :D

And do keep us updated on the straw bale house.
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma #15  
To parrot what other s have said, theres nothing wrong w/going used as long as you know how to turn a wrench :D

My 1st tractor was a 48 TE20 w/a 5' bush hog and a pond scoop on the 3PH to serve as a sort of poor mans loader. It worked out great for me as I added more implemenets. A box blade helped cut my driveway, a potatoe plow (called a middle buster around here) did very well as a trencher for plumbing and electric burial and a boom pole gave me a poor mans cherry picker that couild lift nearly 1000 lbs.
But I spent many an evening keeping the TE20 going. It was a 4 cylinder overhead valve gas engine that was still 6 volts and surprisingly the parts were still available.

On the used side I'd look for an MF35 or a newer MF135, they are great older tractors and they're everywhere. They're out there within your revised price range but may need some TLC.
There are great deals out there on new machines with 0% financing so it would probably pay to at least give 'em a glance or two :D

As for me I've now moved into estate maintenance and sold the venerable ole TE20 and went to a smaller machine w/an HST, FEL, MMM & BH and am spoiled beyond recognition. I know that if I need a larger machine I'll not only look new but also into one w/a conditioned cab w/ all the creature comforts.
Good luck in your endeavors.
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma #16  
Welcome to TBN.:)
It sounds as if you have a good plan and have already started with payback by utilizing the farmers markets. It is a problem deciding on used or new. You are the one to make that decision, but if you know or know someone that knows tractors, used can be very beneficial and cost effective.

15 years ago I had a friend that knew tractors when I purchased my first. It was a 2020 JD gas tractor. It had approx 50 hp and was a 60's model. It was a basic gear tractor 2WD. I did have the clutch and starter replaced. It was a great tractor, in fact it was so great that someone borrowed it and forgot to return it or the implements that went with it.

Buying a tractor can be frightening sometimes, but the more you search the more you learn, which make the experience more confortable and fun.

Good luck on your search and hopefully you can find a solution that will serve your needs. Remember to post pictures when you find your tractor. We like pictures.:D
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma #17  
I had a bad experience with a gray market tractor, the dealer took it back I bought a new JD 790 with a no interest loan. I'm definitely biased by this experience. The gray market tractor was a Yanmar also (the 790 is a Yanmar design) and while there are many good dealers you have to be mechanically inclined if your dealer isn't close. I'm mechanically inclined but didn't have the time for all the work my used tractor was going to require. Also I feel that a used tractor has to be significantly less than 1/2 the price of a new tractor especially when the tractor is 30 years old which many of the gray market tractors are. I have owned other used tractors before, JD and Ford, and had very good service out of both of them.
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma #18  
An old tractor is nice, especially having saved money.... until you really NEED it to get a job done and you cannot because of mechanical troubles.

A NEW tractor is really unnecessary.... until you really NEED a tractor and don't have time to wrench on one.

The wildcard, of course, is how much you have to spend.

People knock boat ownership a lot. "Your second greatest thing in life will be buying your first boat. Your greatest thing in life will be selling it."

Having owned boats and tractors, I'd say that phrase applies more to tractors than boats. Nothing is worse than having a tractor that's just barely getting a job done. There's enough success with it that you can't justify a new expense, but the difficulty in completing each job is just high enough that it really takes the fun out of it. I've floated around here for years, sitting on the fence between keeping a machine that's almost good enough and going out to buy a new machine. In fact, starting this year out again I'm dreading another year in the seat of my old Ford and wearing out my new CC lawn mower.

Buy new and keep up the service schedules as your dealer recommends or as the manufacturer recommends. If you're teachers and new to tractors, it's safe to say you're not mechanics. Knowing that, get a tractor with a warranty that you'll appreciate enough to have proper maintenance done.
 
   / New vs. Old Dilemma
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Wow! Thank you all for the response.

To clarify a few things: I am more of a hammer and nails guy, but I am open to learning how to wrench. I should add that there is mechanic about 2 miles away and the farmer next door is mechanical and has helped a great deal including looking over used tractors at an auction (although he has been pushing new in order to avoid the headache).

The farm is 30 acres. 2/3 of that is forest, while the other 3rd is the open (although with plenty of saplings and brush) field with a 1/2 acre pond.

I stopped into a few dealers todau and was surprised at the wide range of financing options which ranged form 0% for 60 months - 7.6% for 60 months.

The dealers I spoke with felt that I needed to be in a 30 -33 hp with a minimum hp of 27. Don't know if it was an attempt to push up the sales, but after telling them that the financial means was limited they insisted a 30 hp was still best option.

Thanks again.

Mark
 
 
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