NG, Propane, gas or diesel generator??

[kenmac]

I guess every area is different. Around here generac has the market. There are a few kohlers, onans coleman, etc,. but, there are more generacs than any other brand

 

[smitty9266]

You do want to run your A\C units. I can tell you from experience That being able to run the A\C in the house saved us thousands in home repairs and losses after Hurricane Katrina. We lost most of our roof and sustained considerable water damage from rain intrusion.....But we immediately pulled down the wet ceilings and stapled plastic sheeting up. fired up the A\C and dried out the carpets furniture and home contents. You could hear the condensate from the dampness run off the coils of the A\C unit. When my insurance adjuster came out we explained what we had done as a measure to reduce our insurance loss, and we were reimbursed all of our fuel cost.

Also.. you can now reduce the size of your generator by using the new load shedding switches. When you install your transfer switch you purchase as an example, 3 shedding switches or modules, you use these for your high draws A\C, water heaters, stove and such. These modules are programmed for priority....1, 2, and 3. When the number 1 is using power it shuts down 2 and 3. When 1 is not in use 2 or 3 will work. When 2 is in use 3 will shut down, if 1 needs power as soon as the load is taken from 2 1 will run.

I hope that is easier to understand than it is to write.

Also remember is is more fuel efficient to run a 30 kw at 1/2 or 3/4 load than it is to run a 20 kw at full load. If you check the specs on fuel usage you will see what I mean.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'd go Diesel since you've always got at least 250 gallons on site.

I had Natural Gas at the Hospital and had to upgrade because of earthquake requirements. Either Propane or Diesel was acceptable. I decided to go with a 125 KwPrime/150 Kw Standby rated Diesel because in an emergency I have the availability for county Emergency Services to supply diesel... Propane would be very questionable and Natural Gas could be out.

Most Natural Gas Generators run on Propane and vice-versa. I know the engine is derated slightly with one... less Btu I think.

 

[srjones]

I'd go diesel over propane for the following reasons:

1. Transferability. You don't need a special pump to transfer it or out. Gravity would work just fine. In the event of a disaster, you could take a few 55 gallon barrels and go looking for a fuel station rather than waiting for propane delivery truck to make it to you. Likewise, you'd be able to help out friends and neighbors in need if you had extra.

2. Since (I'm assuming) your tractor runs on diesel, you'd be able to get non-taxed fuel delivered in bulk.

3. From what I've read, diesel is the most efficient in terms of BTU/Kw.

4. While it's true that diesel's are hard starting in cold weather, you can prevent issues by mounting the genset in a heated enclosed space or using a heated filter.

 

[Dargo]

4. While it's true that diesel's are hard starting in cold weather, you can prevent issues by mounting the genset in a heated enclosed space or using a heated filter.

I know it's probably not exactly the best solution, but in the mines we used to build a fire, put it out, then shovel all the hot coals under the dozer engines. After a half an hour or so the heat rising from those hot coals had the engine and fuel warm enough to start. But, that might not work so well with a stationary generator.

 

[SimS]

Dargo;

Most of the larger commercial grade standby generators I have seen are equipped with a thermostatic crankcase warmer/heater. The heater runs on utility power that way the generator is ready to go 24/7/365. BTW some of the massive generators (large commercial real estate properties) actually come with a small heat pump that dumps the heat into the crankcase oil. Of course these units have many gallons of crankcase oil and tons of cast iron to keep toasty.
Good luck.

Sim

 

[schmism]

I'd go diesel over propane for the following reasons:

1. Transferability. You don't need a special pump to transfer it or out. Gravity would work just fine. In the event of a disaster, you could take a few 55 gallon barrels and go looking for a fuel station rather than waiting for propane delivery truck to make it to you. Likewise, you'd be able to help out friends and neighbors in need if you had extra.

2. Since (I'm assuming) your tractor runs on diesel, you'd be able to get non-taxed fuel delivered in bulk.

3. From what I've read, diesel is the most efficient in terms of BTU/Kw.

4. While it's true that diesel's are hard starting in cold weather, you can prevent issues by mounting the genset in a heated enclosed space or using a heated filter.

con reasons
1) if its not easy to transport, you dont have to worry about someone coming over and stealing some in the middle of the night to run there generator
2) propane has a simular thing for "ag" use.
3) while it might be more efficent in BTU/Kw its also twice as expensive.
-when everyone else in the area wants diesel for there gennies perhaps it will be easyer to get propane in bulk a week after the storm hits.
The company I used to work for, ran 2 50Kw gennies in FL for there office durring the last large FL hurricanes. had to get there 1000 gals of diesel trucked in from AL because they couldnt get any in FL a week after the hurricane. finding bulk diesel WILL be an issue after a major natural disaster
4) why make the system more complex, more you have to maintain, more that can go wrong. you gonna buy 500gal of winter blend in the middle of summer? what happens if you by 400gal of summer blend and the tank is 7/8 full by the middle of winter when an ice storm knocks out power for a week? then what do you with your fuel? heated tank? shure but again, more complex.

do a survey of the area large scale gennies in the area. pop in behind the lowes, the supermarkets, the office buildings and see what kind they are useing.

personally i like the idea of buying 1000 gal of propane and letting it sit indefinitely with no concerns about shelf life, operating temp, no water or other contamination issues...

 

[srjones]

con reasons
1) if its not easy to transport, you dont have to worry about someone coming over and stealing some in the middle of the night to run there generator
2) propane has a simular thing for "ag" use.
3) while it might be more efficent in BTU/Kw its also twice as expensive.
-when everyone else in the area wants diesel for there gennies perhaps it will be easyer to get propane in bulk a week after the storm hits.
The company I used to work for, ran 2 50Kw gennies in FL for there office durring the last large FL hurricanes. had to get there 1000 gals of diesel trucked in from AL because they couldnt get any in FL a week after the hurricane. finding bulk diesel WILL be an issue after a major natural disaster
4) why make the system more complex, more you have to maintain, more that can go wrong. you gonna buy 500gal of winter blend in the middle of summer? what happens if you by 400gal of summer blend and the tank is 7/8 full by the middle of winter when an ice storm knocks out power for a week? then what do you with your fuel? heated tank? shure but again, more complex.

do a survey of the area large scale gennies in the area. pop in behind the lowes, the supermarkets, the office buildings and see what kind they are useing.

personally i like the idea of buying 1000 gal of propane and letting it sit indefinitely with no concerns about shelf life, operating temp, no water or other contamination issues...

I guess the only thing we can all agree on is that gasoline is a bad option

A few counterpoints to Schmism's counterpoints:

1) If you have to worry about people stealing your stuff in a crisis, there are other terms that come to mind (marshal law, looting, self defense, etc.) When running a generator (any type) and you have lights you're announcing to the world that you have power and resources. In the aftermath of Katrina, it was pretty clear (from what I saw on television) how that worked in rural Mississippi and Louisiana, and how that didn't work when the NOPD took away the law abiding citizen's only means defense. I don't mean to go off on a rant...I'm just sayin'.


2) That's probably true, however I didn't think that propane was generally taxed.

3) Wow, I sure wish propane was 1/2 the price of diesel. Maybe it's just my area.

4) Does it really get that cold in S. Indiana? Even summer fuel can be made into winter blend with the right additives. Heck, you can even use heating oil, which by definition is meant to be used in the winter.

--the large data centers that I work with all have diesel generators. Maybe this is just a Northwest thing.

Ok, here's a new proposal: For the NG/LP gennies, how hard is it to switch between the two? Is it a major operation? Or a 5 minute procedure? Your primary backup could be NG, but have the tank of LP installed filled and plumbed ready to go. Have the hardware on hand and practice changing the oriface between the two.

 

[Dargo]

Ok, here's a new proposal: For the NG/LP gennies, how hard is it to switch between the two? Is it a major operation? Or a 5 minute procedure? Your primary backup could be NG, but have the tank of LP installed filled and plumbed ready to go. Have the hardware on hand and practice changing the oriface between the two.

I don't know. A local HVAC place now carries gensets that are NG/LP. I asked them Friday what all is involved in switching. They said that they'd get back with me because they were new to generators and didn't know. Maybe it's simple. Maybe it's not. All I know is I need to know a lot more about generators.

This looks like a decent price for a diesel unit. Is is junk? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=190253344927

 

[kenmac]

Ok, here's a new proposal: For the NG/LP gennies, how hard is it to switch between the two? Is it a major operation? Or a 5 minute procedure?

Unless They have come out with something new . On large generators. It's more than a 5 min.procedure to switch from one fuel to the other. The engines have to be set up & tuned for type fuel used