NH Mastergold engine oil

   / NH Mastergold engine oil #11  
LOL...when I started this thread I thought I might have a hope of understanding enough about oils to make a good informed decision. I see I was terribly wrong. Thanx for all the very informative infos guys. It did help but right now I'm in info overload. :) I just need to think about what was said and try to understand it. It seems a rather broad topic that's too much to grasp in a short time.

It seems that the method of business these days is to drive all improvements and products strictly from a cost basis, not what is the best technology. That being said, private branded oil from ag companies or cooperatives likely are chosen based on contract bid and minimum specifications. To keep it simple, stay with the name brand oils you have known for years if you are not able to reduce the info down to smaller bites :)

For Cummins engines in CNH equipment, there is Cummins Premium Blue 2000 by Valvoline. There are many more very good lubricants from Shell, Chevron, Conoco as well as from smaller but still notable companies like DA. When it comes to lubricating oil, I am out of my league compared to engine coolant. :D
 
   / NH Mastergold engine oil
  • Thread Starter
#12  
"It seems that the method of business these days is to drive all improvements and products strictly from a cost basis, not what is the best technology."

Agreed...but I think its mostly always been this way. The best ideas seem not to be the most popular. As an engineer its frustrating to be overruled by bean counters and marketeers. Oh well...

"That being said, private branded oil from ag companies or cooperatives likely are chosen based on contract bid and minimum specifications. To keep it simple, stay with the name brand oils you have known for years if you are not able to reduce the info down to smaller bites"

This sounds to me like you're not buying the CNH Mastergold engine oil marketing hype. Am I understanding that correctly?

"For Cummins engines in CNH equipment, there is Cummins Premium Blue 2000 by Valvoline."

I think my tractor has an Iveco motor but I'm not completely sure about that.

"There are many more very good lubricants from Shell, Chevron, Conoco as well as from smaller but still notable companies like DA. When it comes to lubricating oil, I am out of my league compared to engine coolant. "

Last oil change I used Mobil Delvac. Not sure how well/poorly that rates but it gets changed every year. Would like to find an oil which I knew would last for multiple years. Cutting costs and maint time would be nice. Guess I could do that via an oil analysis but I'm not sure I would understand the report.
 
   / NH Mastergold engine oil #13  
Last oil change I used Mobil Delvac. Not sure how well/poorly that rates but it gets changed every year.

Is that the CJ4 blend? I have plenty of it but have yet to use it in my NH
 
   / NH Mastergold engine oil #15  
"This sounds to me like you're not buying the CNH Mastergold engine oil marketing hype. Am I understanding that correctly?

Last oil change I used Mobil Delvac. Not sure how well/poorly that rates but it gets changed every year. Would like to find an oil which I knew would last for multiple years. Cutting costs and maint time would be nice. Guess I could do that via an oil analysis but I'm not sure I would understand the report.


Mobil Delvac is good oil. You mentioned that you want an oil that lasts for multiple years. Considering the investiment in your equipment, pushing the oil change interval is not in your best interest. Yes, in the short term your operating costs are reduced. In the long term where you plan on keeping the tractor for years, the payback is that extending change intervals at the cost of component rebuild life. Of course, if you do not keep a tractor long then changing oil less often is not such a problem. This is the approach of many large on-highway truck fleets. When they trade road tractors off, you do not want them....they get sent to Central and South America. I even saw some old fleet tractors from the US when I was in South Africa in 2007. Whoever buys it can count on some rebuild costs because they were "rode hard and put away wet". :)

Some oil analysis companies do a good job of providing information on your results report so you can understand when they flag a result as being a problem. You can learn about analysis from this company: POLARIS Laboratories, LLC: Oil Analysis, Coolant Analysis, Fuel Analysis, Condition Monitoring, Preventive Maintenance Service Company

I would take a pass on their free on-line coolant training. The author of that does not know engine coolant and especially engines well enough to have information that is believable.
 
   / NH Mastergold engine oil
  • Thread Starter
#16  
My plan wasn't to push the limits just not spend money and time for no reason. The goal is to lengthen the change period w/o causing engine problems...I'm planning to have my tractor for many years. I'd use an oil analysis to determine when a change was necessary. That, of course, means using an oil up to the job. Thanx for the lab pointer.
 
   / NH Mastergold engine oil #17  
I would have to disagree on the use of UOA's and extending oil drain intervals. I have more customers than I can count that use a UOA program and use it as a guideline to extend their drain intervals safely. Don't get me wrong, you don't want to use a oil until it has no additive reserve but draining oil that has nothing wrong with it is simply wasting money. A properly implemented UOA program can actually help to greatly extend equipment life. By monitoring contamination, additive levels and most importantly contamination levels over a long period of time you can implement a extended drain program by trend analysis. After a couple of oil samples you will start to find where your engine, trans, rear end, etc... normal operating levels are (trend analysis). If you see a particular wear metal going above the normal level but long before it reaches a level where the lab would flag it you already have a heads up that something might be happening. The whole key to successfully implementing a UOA program is reliable repeatability. If you only sample every once in a while the UOA isn't going to tell you much. Tested on a regular basis a good UOA program can be the key to greatly increasing equipment life.
 
   / NH Mastergold engine oil
  • Thread Starter
#18  
What are the guidelines of a properly designed program? Does the lab help w/ that or is there some std to follow?
 
   / NH Mastergold engine oil #19  
The first key element to a good UOA program is how you draw your sample. The analysis is only as good as the sample and a externally contaminated sample will show erroneous results. The best way is to either use a oil sampling pump or a oil sampling port mounted in the system being tested. If you use a sampling pump make sure you use a new piece of nylon tubing each time. You can draw a sample while you are draining but you stand the chance of getting contaminates in the oil.

Next you need to set up a sampling schedule. If you don't plan on extending your drain intervals this is rather simple, draw the sample at the time of service. If you plan on extending drain intervals you need to do a little more planning. Draw your first sample at what would be your normally scheduled service (I'll get to filter's later). Now let's say your are sampling a OTR truck engine oil who's regular service intervals are 10,000 miles. Take your second analysis at 15,000 miles, then 20,000 miles adding half of the regular service interval to each additional analysis. At some point no matter how high of a quality lubricant you are using it is going to need changing. Fuel dilution, soot loading, moisture, contamination, additive package depletion, etc... At some point the analysis lab is going to flag one of the samples marginal in some category, probably contamination or additive depletion. When you get this result change the oil. Let's say you got all the way out to 80,000 miles. At this point the oil has reached it's usable life but we want a safety margin. Now that you have your initial analysis cycle done you know at about 80,000 miles the oil will be at the limit. On the second oil change take your first sample at around 20,000 miles, next one at 40,000 and then at 60,000 miles draw a sample and change the oil. This gives you a safety margin so you are not always running the oil to it's limit. You now have your extended drain interval schedule.

As time goes on you will get a base line of what the normal wear metal readings are. Let's say that the lab would normally flag a analysis at 200 ppm (parts per million) but your equipment usually runs at about 20 to 30 ppm per 20,000 mile sampling interval. If you were to get a analysis back that showed 180 ppm in this metal the lab wouldn't flag it because it has not reached it's acceptable limit yet but you know it would regularly be at only 20 or 40 ppm. Draw your next sample early to monitor and see if it is increasing at a increased rate. This is a indication of something abnormal going on and it's time for some diagnosis to track down the culprit. It will stick out like a sore thumb on the analysis results in the graph section as there will be a spike in the what would normally be a gradual sloped line. This is known as trend analysis since a piece of equipment has a "trend" of how quickly it wears out the lubricant and contaminates it. If your analysis is provided by your lubricants supplier they will probably also get a copy of all your results. In my case all of the customers I service, I get a copy of their results. If I notice something that seems out of place on the analysis I contact the customer and inform them. Not all lube reps do this and I'm probably a rare bird but I think that my customers deserve the extra attention. I work with the customer to try to track down the problem weather it's external contamination, a mechanical problem or just particle scarring.

Filter maintenance is probably the most difficult to establish a change schedule for since there is a wide degree of filter quality. If in doubt just change the filter at the regular service interval. Check to see if your filter supplier offers a extended drain interval filter, many do. Extended drain filters usually have a lot more filter media in them and of much higher quality. Many have built in bypass filtration units. Some even offer extended drain filters that contain a additive booster's. I'm not a big fan of the additive booster filters since every oil has a different additive package and different levels. The filter has no way of knowing how much of what is needed.

If in doubt about anything on a analysis or how to implement one contact the analysis lab or your lube rep if you have one. It's better to play it safe than sorry.
 
 
Top