No start troubles

[General Lee]

I have a 2010 L4400. Intermittently it wont start, most times right after using it and shutting down, then a short time later it wont start. I have to jump the starter and starter solenoid and it fires right up. Doesn't appear to be the Hydro pedal not finding center. I'm thinking maybe the safety switch under the seat, but I don't know. Anyway to trouble shoot some things to narrow the issue down?

 

[Roadworthy]

Your problem sounds intermittent - the worst kind. It also sounds as thought one of your safety switches is not making contact part of the time so yes, it could be the seat switch. While you're looking at switches look at how they're mounted and the stability of the device being checked. My Kubota early on had issues with the seat safety switch. The seat pivots forward on a rod. One end of the rod had slipped out of its mount allowing the seat to shift. This affected seat position slightly and the associated switch decided I wasn't in the seat. In short, don't assume a switch without checking out what makes it work.

 

[JWR]

Smaller subcompact tractors (of several brands) have a problem where attempted starts result in clicking but no cranking. Most of those are lack of a full 12v to the solenoid with all sorts of remedial actions you can imagine.[There are several threads on this for Kubota and John Deere, etc.] I have that disease with my BX2200 which seems to happen only if I am in a hurry and need it to start immediately.

Does your L4400 have high hours or sat outside a lot? I have a B2150 (bought used with suspected poor care) that sometimes will not crank even with a known good battery, etc. No clicking, no cranking. That one always responds to rapping it soundly on the starter body with a socket extension rod driven by a gentle hammer. Then starts right up. There are several threads speculating about what that starter problem is.

Yours sounds a little more like the "low voltage to the solenoid" variety though maybe one of the safety interlocks acting up. Suggest using a voltmeter at the small wire to the solenoid (might have to nick the insulation to get on it.) When you turn the key to start if you get zero volts then you have an interlock problem in one of several places like the seat or the transmission lever or the PTO, etc. If you get voltage but not quite full battery voltage you have the "voltage drop to the solenoid" disease more common on the smaller machines.

 

[General Lee]

Smaller subcompact tractors (of several brands) have a problem where attempted starts result in clicking but no cranking. Most of those are lack of a full 12v to the solenoid with all sorts of remedial actions you can imagine.[There are several threads on this for Kubota and John Deere, etc.] I have that disease with my BX2200 which seems to happen only if I am in a hurry and need it to start immediately.

Does your L4400 have high hours or sat outside a lot? I have a B2150 (bought used with suspected poor care) that sometimes will not crank even with a known good battery, etc. No clicking, no cranking. That one always responds to rapping it soundly on the starter body with a socket extension rod driven by a gentle hammer. Then starts right up. There are several threads speculating about what that starter problem is.

Yours sounds a little more like the "low voltage to the solenoid" variety though maybe one of the safety interlocks acting up. Suggest using a voltmeter at the small wire to the solenoid (might have to nick the insulation to get on it.) When you turn the key to start if you get zero volts then you have an interlock problem in one of several places like the seat or the transmission lever or the PTO, etc. If you get voltage but not quite full battery voltage you have the "voltage drop to the solenoid" disease more common on the smaller machines.

Only 150 hours, but it does sit outside a lot. Original battery too, so maybe it is a voltage problem. When it decides not to start, glow plugs click on and all other electrical systems seem to work, keep turning the key to start and nothing.......no clicking no trying to start, just dead.

 

[JWR]

Couple things to try (besides using the voltmeter as I previously mentioned.) I find that if I connect a battery charger that raises the voltage headed for the solenoid and causes my BX2200 to crank when it otherwise has decided to sit there and click. Since yours is not even clicking I'd try the shaft of metal tapped with a hammer on to the starter motor and then turn the key and see if it starts. However, since you said it starts right up when jumped you probably just need a new battery.

 

[Fallon]

Go at things with a multimeter. The only other option is to just start replacing or bypassing parts.

The 1 easy exception would be to remove, clean, inspect & reattach grounds & battery cables. Those aren't super likely to be that erratic of a problem, but are often a problem. After an hour or 2 with a multimeter ripping the whole dash appart on a 2-3 year old tractor the second I started removing a clean ground cable bolt my hazards started working. I immediately flashed back to tons of TBN posts saying to check the grounds first. Should have done that rather than checking & chasing wierd voltage readings under the dash.

 

[General Lee]

However, since you said it starts right up when jumped you probably just need a new battery.

It starts right up by jumping the starter solenoid, taking a pig tail to the positive bolt on the starter and the other end to the solenoid connection. I haven't simply tried jump starting from the battery. Worth a shot though

 

[JWR]

Smaller subcompact tractors (of several brands) have a problem where attempted starts result in clicking but no cranking. Most of those are lack of a full 12v to the solenoid with all sorts of remedial actions you can imagine.[There are several threads on this for Kubota and John Deere, etc.] I have that disease with my BX2200 which seems to happen only if I am in a hurry and need it to start immediately.

Does your L4400 have high hours or sat outside a lot? I have a B2150 (bought used with suspected poor care) that sometimes will not crank even with a known good battery, etc. No clicking, no cranking. That one always responds to rapping it soundly on the starter body with a socket extension rod driven by a gentle hammer. Then starts right up. There are several threads speculating about what that starter problem is.

Yours sounds a little more like the "low voltage to the solenoid" variety though maybe one of the safety interlocks acting up. Suggest using a voltmeter at the small wire to the solenoid (might have to nick the insulation to get on it.) When you turn the key to start if you get zero volts then you have an interlock problem in one of several places like the seat or the transmission lever or the PTO, etc. If you get voltage but not quite full battery voltage you have the "voltage drop to the solenoid" disease more common on the smaller machines.

I cannot find the older posts centering around "low voltage to the solenoid" failures to start using the BX2200 and similar Kubota subcompacts. I know that in previous chases about the problem I found that the same disease exists with small John Deere machines and others. The basic problem is that so many safety interlocks exist and each contributes some amount of voltage drop before the battery voltage reaches the solenoid. To me all the manufacturers should EITHER provide relays to bypass all that crap as std equipment OR start using 10v triggered solenoids instead of 12v ones. That design change would save a lot of grief and expense to hundreds of thousands of people for sure. I do know that Deere sells a relay kit to cure this problem which people said would work ok on the Kubota's too.

What triggered this posting NOW is that I hauled my BX2200 to the tractor hospital for a split/worn through hydraulic line to the loader and the tech told me they (closest Kubota dealer here in So MD) now sell and install what they call "hard start kits." These kits are electrically the same as Deere -- uses an extra rely to put full battery voltage on the solenoid when trying to start by bypassing all the safety interconnects. The tech also mentioned that each interconnect is considered "in spec" if half a volt is dropped across it ! That means for 4 safety interconnects a total of 2 volts drop end to end is in spec. No wonder the solenoid is only sometimes happy !

 

[lpakiz]

I would also caution you troubleshooters that a digital meter is not always the best choice to check for voltage problems. A test LIGHT is much better in these situations. (An old tail light bulb and socket is my go-to test light)
The problem with the digital meter is that it is so sensitive it will read a full 12-13 volts at some test location, but when load is applied, the voltage that arrived is less than that. If you use digital, be sure you read the meter while under load.
The test light bulb requires some current flow to illuminate, whereas the digital meter will show full voltage, for example, thru a flashlight bulb filament. Or a wire much smaller than a hair.
Dont get me wrong, the digital meter is an EXCELLANT diagnostic tool--if you know it's limitations.

 

[JWR]

I cannot find the older posts centering around "low voltage to the solenoid" failures to start using the BX2200 and similar Kubota subcompacts. I know that in previous chases about the problem I found that the same disease exists with small John Deere machines and others. The basic problem is that so many safety interlocks exist and each contributes some amount of voltage drop before the battery voltage reaches the solenoid. To me all the manufacturers should EITHER provide relays to bypass all that crap as std equipment OR start using 10v triggered solenoids instead of 12v ones. That design change would save a lot of grief and expense to hundreds of thousands of people for sure. I do know that Deere sells a relay kit to cure this problem which people said would work ok on the Kubota's too.

What triggered this posting NOW is that I hauled my BX2200 to the tractor hospital for a split/worn through hydraulic line to the loader and the tech told me they (closest Kubota dealer here in So MD) now sell and install what they call "hard start kits." These kits are electrically the same as Deere -- uses an extra rely to put full battery voltage on the solenoid when trying to start by bypassing all the safety interconnects. The tech also mentioned that each interconnect is considered "in spec" if half a volt is dropped across it ! That means for 4 safety interconnects a total of 2 volts drop end to end is in spec. No wonder the solenoid is only sometimes happy !

OK, BX2200 is back from the shop. I may jinx myself but I doubt it: The new "hard start kit" is listed on the dealer invoice as an "AM107421 Quickstart" costing me $89. I just searched the AM107421 Quickstart using Google and found out they are on Amazon for $30. So I was "had" on the parts price but I will say the result is outstanding so far. Starts up quicker/more immediate response and SO FAR never fails to crank when asked to do so. Well worth it even at the rip off parts price.

Sick that the manufacturers don't include this feature on all of them from the factory (not just BX2200 but the small Deeres and many others.

Who would not pay the $30 extra in machine price (probably 1/10 of that if put on at the factory) if they knew it was going to prevent the countless times of being hung trying to start the thing !!!