Not to start an argument..............

[stravis]

Your joking, right? You actually think that they put more thought into a smaller machine than the big ones? Yes, I think that the larger hp tractors are designed to take the power that is put into them. And no I don't care what tractor you have, I just disagree with you that the largest tractor of any lineup is an inferior machine, as in not really made to take the hp that happens to be put in it. So aren't you uncomfortable having the largest hp model in the 5E series lineup? After all, it probably really isn't made to handle that 101hp. Maybe you should have stepped up to the 6D series, then you would not have any strength worries.

My 5101 isn't the largest JD makes, just the largest in the series. I said that I didn't want the largest tractor a brand made, not that I didn't want the largest in a series. It's just an opinion, no need to get flustered.

 

[stravis]

First of all, I think that you use the term "grey market" wrong. I believe that grey market tractors are machines that have been built for and used in foreign countries and then imported to the United States as used machines.

As far as me having my grey market tractor, (Mahindra) I would be one of the few that would chose my Mahindra 7520 4x4 over ANY other tractor in the 70-80hp size. It overall out specs any other tractor in its class. It is extremely comfortable to operate, has the right ergonomics for me. After 5 years of use, it has been a very good machine for me. Does that answer your question? :confused2:

It is my thinking that if you had ten different brands, all the same hp range, all painted the same color, all for free with no warranty, that a lot of people would be surprised at which brands would be chosen first. While Kubota, John Deere, CNH, and AGCO all have very good machines, a lot of the others are as good or even better in some instances. This is what my findings have been after going to very large AG shows for several years.

I very well might be surprised if people were presented that option. I doubt it, but I could. I'm glad your happy with your tractor. I'm sure it's a great machine. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else otherwise.

 

[stravis]

I'll be the first to admit that it seems to me that JD people are very proud of their Green paint.

Seems to me that all the colors are proud of their paint. I'm proud of my green and faded blue paint.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

My 5101 isn't the largest JD makes, just the largest in the series. I said that I didn't want the largest tractor a brand made, not that I didn't want the largest in a series. It's just an opinion, no need to get flustered.

OK, no problem, I guess that I just don't get the difference between yours being the biggest in a series and say Kubota's M135. Yes the Kubota is at the top of Kubota's lineup, so what? It's only the biggest in the M series tractors. Do you think that Kubota cut some corners with that tractor? I know that when I bought my Mahindra 7520, (which was the biggest it had at the time) it was by far the best tractor that Mahindra made. I guess that I'll go back to the JD scenario, If you had the need, you still would not get the 9030 series with the 530hp engine? But you would get a 9030 series with the next size down engine? If that is the case, I suppose it is sort of an insurance, safety sort of thing. Although I feel that the same exact principles apply to your purchase and you should have gone with the next smaller engine in your series group.

I guess that I just don't follow your logic, no big deal.

 

[stravis]

OK, no problem, I guess that I just don't get the difference between yours being the biggest in a series and say Kubota's M135. Yes the Kubota is at the top of Kubota's lineup, so what? It's only the biggest in the M series tractors. Do you think that Kubota cut some corners with that tractor? I know that when I bought my Mahindra 7520, (which was the biggest it had at the time) it was by far the best tractor that Mahindra made. I guess that I'll go back to the JD scenario, If you had the need, you still would not get the 9030 series with the 530hp engine? But you would get a 9030 series with the next size down engine? If that is the case, I suppose it is sort of an insurance, safety sort of thing. Although I feel that the same exact principles apply to your purchase and you should have gone with the next smaller engine in your series group.

I guess that I just don't follow your logic, no big deal.

I guess my point is that to me, if a 100 hp tractor is the largest a manufacturer makes, and they have two dozen different models, then their priority is likely the smaller models. If their priority is the smaller models, then they probably didn't put as much research into the largest in their line up. I could be wrong.

I see your point as well and you're right. The frame of my 5E is the same frame that they made for the 83 hp engine.

 

[Cat_Driver]

I for one am very concerned about the U.S. loosing the industrial and manufacturing base. I would much prefer to see us keep the jobs and ability to manufacture here at home.

That ship has left the dock many, many years ago and will never return.

There is absolutely no way any Country can compete with $1.00 A DAY wages. Things manufactured over seas cost less that 10% of what it cost to be produced here.

 

[DavesTractor]

Just a little follow-up. Per Farm Equipment Magazine, a well respected Magazine taken by most dealers, total compact and Utility tractors sales for the entire North American market in 2009 was 145,670. So if Kubota somehow had 33% of that, and they don't, the total tractor numbers for Kubota in 2009 would be around 50K, or 1/5th of what we were lead to believe.

I'll get off my soapbox now. I think we might get Messick to acknowledge that Mahindra outsold Kubota worldwide last year in total tractors sold.

Again, this is not meant in any way to disparage Kubota, only to correct a dealer that continually trys to slam Mahindra and minimize the brand. For those of you who are Kubota fans, carry on! You have a great tractor.

You will find the 80,000 (or so) odd tractors in Mahindras financial stock reports for their own production, the other half as you said is just stickers on the hood. As for Kubota, its around 250,000/yr for just the US, which is about 1/3 of their total business.

I'd also say the same 'ripple in the pond' remark to Kubota as well. They are a much, much smaller company than Agco, Deere or CNH.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Just a little follow-up. Per Farm Equipment Magazine, a well respected Magazine taken by most dealers, total compact and Utility tractors sales for the entire North American market in 2009 was 145,670. So if Kubota somehow had 33% of that, and they don't, the total tractor numbers for Kubota in 2009 would be around 50K, or 1/5th of what we were lead to believe.

That fits right in with what I understand. Kubota's market share is over 50% on tractors under 100 PTO HP according to the AEM. They announced that to everyone at a dealer meeting last year. That would be about 75,000 compacts. Throw in RTV's, ZD's,ZG's,T's,GR's, and the models that fall outside what the AEM tracks and we're easily at the 200,000+ mark.

There is lots of good info on Mahindra right here.. http://www.mahindra.com/admin/tmpupload/StandaloneAR_2008-09.pdf

Mahindra, being a public company posts all this info in stock reports. They build just over 100,000 tractors globally last year. Even so the stock report says only 8500 of these where exported outside India to the 50+ countries where they claim a footprint. Granted, many more are sold that are built by Mitsu and TYM. Maybe Daves can verify, but I think most of Mahindra's top models are badge engineered tractors and would not be included in those figures.

I don't have an axe to grind or anything. I just get irritated at all the chest pounding that Mahindra keeps doing thats not backed up by their own numbers. We're a long, long way from the "Big-3" becomming the "Big-4". But their press releases would make you think they're about to take over the world. If any company should be given more credit than they are given for their international accomplishments is Massy.

 

[DavesTractor]

That fits right in with what I understand. Kubota's market share is over 50% on tractors under 100 PTO HP according to the AEM. They announced that to everyone at a dealer meeting last year. That would be about 75,000 compacts. Throw in RTV's, ZD's,ZG's,T's,GR's, and the models that fall outside what the AEM tracks and we're easily at the 200,000+ mark.

There is lots of good info on Mahindra right here.. http://www.mahindra.com/admin/tmpupload/StandaloneAR_2008-09.pdf

Mahindra, being a public company posts all this info in stock reports. They build just over 100,000 tractors globally last year. Even so the stock report says only 8500 of these where exported outside India to the 50+ countries where they claim a footprint. Granted, many more are sold that are built by Mitsu and TYM. Maybe Daves can verify, but I think most of Mahindra's top models are badge engineered tractors and would not be included in those figures.

I don't have an axe to grind or anything. I just get irritated at all the chest pounding that Mahindra keeps doing thats not backed up by their own numbers. We're a long, long way from the "Big-3" becomming the "Big-4". But their press releases would make you think they're about to take over the world. If any company should be given more credit than they are given for their international accomplishments is Massy.

You and I are getting vastly different numbers, and probably we always will unless some independent source sliced and diced the info without any bias.

Mahindra bought only a handful of tractors from TYM in 2009, probably less than 100 total. Now that production is getting ramped up on the new 35 series (35-50HP compacts built in India by Mahindra), we do not need to fill that gap with TYM product. The new 35 series is amazing. It's a premium tractor by any standards, and built directly by Mahindra. Under 35HP is all Japanese, made by Mitsu.

Very little, percentage wise, of Mahindra's global sales are built by others, but in the USA, with it's higher demand for smaller compacts, we do proudly sell a decent amount of Mitsu built product.

Neil, I'm not trying to imply that Mahindra is even close to Kubota in market share in the USA, we are not yet and if we ever are it will take many years. However, I am trying to let people know in response to your disparaging remarks that Mahindra globally is huge and strong. They even posted record profits last year, you may have noticed that. And they are not just a tractor company by decal, they build 90% of there own tractors, not a lot of badge engineering like some brands. 100,000 employess, 6.4B USD company, record profits, over 150,000 tractors built in 2009...worthy of a little chest-pounding.

I'm stepping off my soapbox now, and will try to not get back on it. We are off subject. Neil at Messicks should be and is proud of Kubota, and he can brag all he wants, let's just try to not drag someone else down in doing so.

 

[crazyal]

Since we are talking about where and what parts are made by whom. Which companies outsource things like engines to others? How much of the CUT tractors are built in China or other lower labor rate countries?

With cars it use to be easy. American was built here (and maybe Canada) and the asian cars were built in Japan. Now it's much harder to tell.