Not welding, per se but,

[handirifle]

I am curious as to why you cant use copper jacketed lead bullets. Are you using this cannon to shoot ducks or something. That is the only thing I know of that requires non lead is when shooting over water.

Ca law. The claim is the CA Condors were dying from lead ingestion from left over gut piles. It's not the entire state, but covers the best hunting areas. It's supposed to be the Condors' historical areas. Either way, I am stuck with the law. It's not just CA, but AZ is currently in a "volunteer" lead ban, but I am sure if they keep dying from lead, they will ban it too. Believe me, there are tons of good lead based bullets for the levergun, but I can't hunt with them. I can still target shoot with them, but it's leaving the lead in gut piles, they claim is the issue. And since the Condor is an endangered species, it was easy for the libs in this states house, to pass the law. Our F&G commission was going to do what AZ has done, but the greenies and the libs didn't give them a chance.

I could go on for an hour with this, but to no avail.

TRR,
I haven't tried that part yet, it's the same principal as the Barnes offering, but with the Barnes bullets, at least the basic form is already done. I have been making some of my own dies for this project, and since I really am not a machinist, it's been a steep learning curve. There are ready made dies for this, but at over $200 for a single die, and needing several to complete the operation, it's cost prohibitive for me. I am retired, and funds are tightening up.

It's a catch 22, I need a job to pay for my toys, but if I get a job, I have no time for my toys.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Man these liberal greenies IMO need to have all of their rites to hydrocarbons of any sort cut off. Put them back in a cave using rocks and sticks and see how much noise they can make after walking to their sit-in in animal hide shoes, wait they dont believe in killing animals, I guess they would show up naked when you get down to it since just about everything made today depends on oil at some point. I makes me sick to see them show up in their $200K cars, or $multi-million private jets and then complain about average persons carbon foot print. Makes one wonder how much sense our lawmakers have for believing in that BS without even a moment to give a common sense thought to their statement. For instance, how many bullets from high powered rifles could be fired in total after deducting the firing range sales and then eaten by wild life. Even if eaten, the pass right thru a mammal so no harm there. Birds with a craw could possible keep them for life but do Condors have a craw, I dont think so. I dont think any meat eater has a craw so that argument holds no water. Then again, how many bullets end up in the guts from field dressing, I would guess not many if any at all as most if not thru shots, end up in muscle mass or against bone. THis seems to be another anti-hunter propaganda mission disguised as protectionism of wildlife. They banned the steel shot for duck hunting and that makes sense in a way since ducks do forage on the bottoms of hunting habitat and do have a craw so the lead stays with them and is then possibly consumed by an eagle that catches the duck. Do we need to go back to the duck that ate the worm that ate the soil that might have lead in it to ban the dirt so we have to remove all the soil that might be something in it so we better not farm any of it and grow anything that MIGHT have some trace element in it that MIGHT have negative effects on SOME amoeba or other living organism when consumed in massive quantities. Ever hear of water poisoning, yep you can die from drinking too much water.
RANT OVER

 

[dusty3030]

I've read your stuff and you are doing some good work. When I read your thread on here the barnes bullets were the first I thought of and looks like you did too and have gone way down that road.
I had an idea last night, might or might not work for you, but here it goes.
I read about your aluminum blocks for holding the bullets and though of a jig you could have made up at a machine shop that you could sell or sell plans too.
A square block of steel. Front end cut precisely square, then bored precisely to the depth you need to hold the barnes bullet at as close a fit as possible and cut it to the right length.
Through hole drilled end to end large enough for a .22 cal cleaning rod to slip through in case a bullet gets stuck it can be pushed out.
Face of jig case hardened. This can be touched up by the user from time to time if it starts to wear through.
Maybe a set screw perpindicular to the bullet set to touch the bullet in one of the grooves to prevent it from rotating.

With this you could cut off the nose square every time with a disk sander that has a miter gauge. You just hold the square steel block against the miter gauge and sand off the nose of the bullet, as soon as the jig kisses the disk stop. Case hardned to help the jig last a while. Form the hollow point with whatever bit you come up with in a small drill press with the stop set to go the right depth. Bullet goes in the jig, both operations are done then bullet taken out and new one put in. Would give just about anybody the capability to make a decent bullet without a lathe and without a lot of tools and have a consistent product.
In a pinch a file could be used if no disk sander was available.

 

[handirifle]

Gary
I hear ya, but your preachin to the choir here.

Dusty
Darn good idea, I did think a jig was a good idea, never thought of a sander to cut away the tip. have to try that one out. One other thing that came to mind for me, after reading your idea, was to include a centering jig OVER the jig holding the bullet. That way one could insure the hollow point was drilled concentric every time. It would have to be bullet specific so a certain size drill bit would be used.


Hmmmm more ideas.

Today I managed to cut my 235 gr Barnes bullets to 1.00" in length, and bore out the centers to .25 depth, and use the nose forming die I made and round over the nose to a .20 opening. Bullets came out to 190gr +-1gr. So far so good, but they are still a lot of work. i will keep going on the copper tubing idea, as it is a lot cheaper. I'm working on getting some 30 cal jackets to make up the partitions I started this thread over, also.

Will let you guys know how the solder thing works out.

 

[Gary Fowler]

How would it work to just take a copper jacketed bullet, melt out the lead and refill with your bismuth/lead free solder mix. I guess you would still need some type of form to get the last bit of Nose on to it but you would have your basic bullet formed and sized already

 

[SPYDERLK]

Ca law. The claim is the CA Condors were dying from lead ingestion from left over gut piles.

Woods metal is relatively expensive, but is available at various melt points in the boiling range. Heavy like lead. Could pay for itself with convenience. :confused3:
edit: oops, some lead in it.
larry

 

[deereman75]

what about just getting a bullet mould, and casting bullets out of tin or something, and forgetting the copper case.

 

[Soundguy]

that would be my vote... just solid cast them..

say.. are brass projectiles still legal?

 

[handirifle]

All great ideas, all have been tried (by me) and may/may not work. Here's why. In order,

TRR
I will try an all copper rod soon. I have finally developed what I consider to be a usable nose forming die that makes the nose profile I like and can safely use, AND do it consistently, that is really important for accuracy and bullet performance.

Here is a pic of the results from the die I just used last night on some of my modified Barnes TSX bullets. I finally have the consistency I was after.

Here's one that shows it from another angle

Here's the original bullet. It's second from the left.

Gary
I did that already with the jacketed spire point Hornady bullet. I took what once was a 270gr bullet, cut the tip off and melted the lead out and filled with a bizmuth/leadfree solder mix. Bizmuth by itself, is very close to lead in weight, but is also very brittle, some the zinc/tim mix of the solder holds it together better. I actually submitted these to CA Fish and Game, but understandably, since their requirement is >1% lead content, the commission would require them to be independently tested, at my expense of course. This requires me sending 10 samples, no biggie, at a $50 setup charge, AND $125 per sample charge, testing fee. Uhhhhh, thanks, but no thanks, I'll figure something else out.

Deerman,
I tried that too, they come out pretty light, when cast of just solder. Something like 165gr as compared to using the same mold for lead is 260gr. Very long light weight bullet, that does not expand at all, it just deforms. I have also tried a mix of bizmuth/solder and it's heavier but since they both melt lower than lead, I am concerned about "leading" the barrel with melted residue. I have the stuff to copper plate the bullets, like the Federal Fusion line, but haven't done that yet.

Soundguy,
Brass has higher than 1% lead. I just learned that fact from a bullet maker that makes theirs from brass. They say it won't pass the CA requirements.

I have been doing this off and on for several years, BUT I do appreciate the ideas, really do. It's what keeps me going.