NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky

   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky #11  
HST been there done that
No More for me. When they work their Great but when not they can be a real Pain
Hope the guy that bought my NX4510C has better luck than I did.
 
   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky
  • Thread Starter
#12  
I checked my hydro temp (just below the fill cap) and I'm reading about 210F when my reverse starts to stop working and I get jerky pulses on my hydro system like the finish mower quickly moving up/down about a half inch every 10-15 minutes.

I then opened the hydro fill cap and this is what I found ...

20200820_141943.jpg
 
   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky #13  
That, my friend, is fluid aeration. Can you tell me what brand of fluid you're using?

Tractor making noises like in this video? Not the engine noise, but the intermittent "whup....whup, whup-whup....whup" noise. That's what mine is doing.
 
   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Don't know the brand. The Kioti dealer did the 50 hour maintenance. I'm at about 170 hours now so 200 hr maintenance is soon.

In addition to the froth I would get burps of air. I wonder if this is causing the jerky pulses in the system.
 
   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky #15  
I think you're not due for a hydro fluid change until 400 hours. I can almost guarantee the issues you're getting are the result of the aeration. I'm not a hydraulics expert, but I'm fairly certain aeration is causing your (and my) issues. We know air compresses whereas hydraulic fluid does not. If you have air in your hydraulics, stuff doesn't work right. Loss of steering is common, as the steering cylinder fills up with air and compresses when you try to turn the wheel. I imagine it does the same thing in the HST (forward/reverse) and MLS (controls the three point). Bottom line, you MUST have fluid in a hydro system for it to do what it's supposed to do. Air is bad for multiple reasons.

Aeration is caused by a handful of things...all of which I researched when my tractor started acting funny. You have suction leaks, cavitation, pseudo-cavitation, and something I forget the name of, but is caused by the fluid falling from the return into the reservoir and causing bubbles (like filling a swimming pool with a hose held above the water surface).

I thought mine was caused by a suction leak, but we've changed just about everything on the suction side we can think of except for the metal tubing. That's every o-ring, the filter housing, filter, clamps on the plastic tubing that joins the front and back tubing, and the tubing itself. We recently changed the hydro pump with the same results. Tractor still acts the same, which is just like yours.

I'm at a loss as to what the issue may be, but I'm going to switch to a premium fluid next and see what it does.
 
   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Mine only seems to act up when I'm using the PTO and only after the hydro system gets to maximum temperature. I monitored the hydro housing temperature just below the hydro fluid fill cap and watched the temperature rise as I mowed the grass. The temp started at about 90F after the engine cooling system got to normal temp and then it steadily increased over about a 45 minute period to over 200F. Once it got to above around 200F the issues would start to surface, reverse working intermittently and the three point hitch would pulse/jerk. The maximum temp I measured was 209F. When I took the picture and video of the hydro fill port the temp had started to cool with the PTO off (engine on) and was around 195F-200F.

Seems like hydro temperature and using the PTO is a factor. I don't see these issues when I'm using the tractor without the PTO, even after hours of use.

It's interesting that hydro fluid viscosity is tested at two temperatures, 104F and 212F with the least viscosity at the higher temperature. The flash point of premium hydro fluid is around 260F.

So the problem I'm seeing is when the hydro fluid is at max temp and the viscosity is at its lowest.

Is the hydro fluid near boiling point?
 
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   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky #17  
If you're getting fluid foaming, I strongly suspect it's happening all the time. Issues only manifest themselves as the fluid gets hotter and less dense. You can see if it's happening all the time by installing a piece of clear reinforced tubing in the suction line in place of the black tubing that joins the suction tubing to the pump. I can see bubbles passing through mine. It should be clear, honey colored fluid.

If you determine a solution, please let me know. My dealer and I have been working on this for about a year now.
 
   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky
  • Thread Starter
#18  
The technical information I found on hydraulic fluid came from the manufactures MSDS. The more I research the more I find the statements that not all hydraulic is the same and there are no API like standards for hydraulic fluid manufactures. A big popular name brand might not mean the best fluid for your tractor. Finding the right fluid might make a big difference. Below is an article and video that refers to this.

Universal Tractor Hydraulic Fluids ensure smooth, efficient operation

 
   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky
  • Thread Starter
#19  
This could be one of the members here but this guy explains the same issue including the froth I see.

 
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   / NX 5010HST Cab reverse intermittent and jerky #20  
The technical information I found on hydraulic fluid came from the manufactures MSDS. The more I research the more I find the statements that not all hydraulic is the same and there are no API like standards for hydraulic fluid manufactures. A big popular name brand might not mean the best fluid for your tractor. Finding the right fluid might make a big difference. Below is an article and video that refers to this.

Universal Tractor Hydraulic Fluids ensure smooth, efficient operation


From what I gather, it's not so much the fluid itself as it is the additive package each manufacturer blends into the fluid. The oil is largely going to be the same, but the additive packages can vary widely and can change the performance characteristics significantly.
 
 
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