Pasture into hayfield

[5030]

According to my jug of 2-4D it kills alfalfa and clover which to me is a hayfield. If talking grasses then yes 2 - 4D is an option along with other pasture sprays.

If small area of thistles a long nosed shovel and pair of good leather gloves also work after nice soaking rain to dig the plants out. Slow process but effective for small areas.

Good observation and I said 24D because I have no idea how much alfalfa there is. I use (expensive) 24D(B) on my hayfields as the B will not kill alfalfa but be apprised there is only one company that makes it and it ain't cheap and unlike 24D which you can buy about anywhere, the B formulation has to come from an ag chemical outfit. I get mine from Wilbur Ellis.

 

[5030]

candidly, I've never refitted a field when developing one for forage. I'll do a soil sample and apply the proper amendments, usually in the early fall and overseed with vernal alfalfa for the winter and set the alfalfa seed with a large Fuerst drag mat. A couple fields I cut have never been refiited in over 10 years, I just keep up with overseeding and maintaining the correct nutrient levels, leaning on the side of extra boron. The fields continually produce very well. Alfalfa demands good nutrient uptake so I watch my levels all the time. Never plant hybrid (roundup ready alfalfa) either, always vernal because hybrid alfalfa is hard to control and I want them to always be mixed forage.

 

[MinnesotaMorg]

be sure to take the whole thing down to the same depth then roll.

can you elaborate what you mean by this? I'm very new to this all. I'm guessing you mean grade down to the low spots then plow it over?

I've never refitted a field when developing one for forage.

what do you mean by refitted? Is that when you plow over the hayfield and disc and reseed?

 

[repete]

If the loose dirt is the same depth as the undisturbed soil you can level it and then run a cultipacker over it to "press" it into the low areas and if necessary level it again and cultipack again.
If you simply fill the holes with loose dirt the loose dirt will settle over time and return to a depression. It will likely be better than having done nothing but time will yield a better field for traveling rapidly over in the future.

 

[Hay Dude]

If the loose dirt is the same depth as the undisturbed soil you can level it and then run a cultipacker over it to "press" it into the low areas and if necessary level it again and cultipack again.
If you simply fill the holes with loose dirt the loose dirt will settle over time and return to a depression. It will likely be better than having done nothing but time will yield a better field for traveling rapidly over in the future.

If we tried to do that in MY area, it would bring lots of unwanted attention from government agencies. We have to get permits just to do farm field ditching. I live in an area once dominated by farming, but has now been taken over by “citidiots”.
I’m not saying what repete says to do is wrong in any way, but be sure to “read the room” before you bring in a dozer with rippers. It might be perfectly fine in your area, or it might require permits and lots of erosion and run-off protection.

We have more of a “leave it be” group overseeing what happens in our area. Probably why we are overrun with invasive species and have 100’ trees blocking everything now. Because of that, I take a more subtle approach and rehab fields one smaller area at a time. Don‘t like attracting attention from the “new environmentalists” in my area. I haven’t owned a sprayer for over 10 years and quite honestly, don’t agree with spraying chemicals at nauseam like some farmers.

Just one man’s opinion here, but for the price of hay, I would never spend that kind of money to get rid of bumps and low spots and I mean no disrespect to repetes ideas. Maybe would consider for a higher profit/acre crop.

I have invested in tractor with suspensions and attachments with tandem walking beam suspensions in some cases. That is how I make a bumpy field feel smoother.

 

[Hay Dude]

I just rehabbed 40 acres for a customer last summer. They had been farmed by a previous farmer who never did much anything but spray herbicides. Hemp dogbane was the worst invasive.
When I took over, yields were basically nothing-maybe (1)1,000lb round bale per acre (1/2 ton per acre). Essentially it had become what we call a “desert”.
Without using herbicides or chemical fertilizers, I was able to fix their issues for at least the foreseeable future. This is what we did:

1. Baled what little growth was left and got rid of it.
2. scalped ground down low with 15’ rotary mower before any weeds significantly went to seed.
3. applied 2 tons lime per acre (soil tests asked for 5 tons per acre).
4. aerated the soil vigorously. It looked very opened up when it was done. Aerated to a depth of about 15”.
5. waited a few months and applied another 2 tons/acre of wet lime.
6. in mid august we drilled in Rebel endophyte free fescue. Seedlings were 12” tall by October.
7. in mid fall, after seedlings emerged, we applied 1-2” of mushroom compost. We waited until seedlings were strong enough to handle tractor with minimal loss.
8. by late June of the following year, we were baling new grass hay at about 2 tons per acre.

We expect 2nd cutting to be almost as heavy since bunch clumps of grasses are just starting to get bigger. Next year we expect yields to be even higher with continued organic fertilizing, lime and other key nutrients.

We didn’t use any herbicides or pesticides and we won’t in the future. We will apply another round of lime this august at 2 tons/acre.

 

[repete]

If we tried to do that in MY area, it would bring lots of unwanted attention from government agencies. We have to get permits just to do farm field ditching. I live in an area once dominated by farming, but has now been taken over by “citidiots”.
I’m not saying what repete says to do is wrong in any way, but be sure to “read the room” before you bring in a dozer with rippers. It might be perfectly fine in your area, or it might require permits and lots of erosion and run-off protection.

We have more of a “leave it be” group overseeing what happens in our area. Probably why we are overrun with invasive species and have 100’ trees blocking everything now. Because of that, I take a more subtle approach and rehab fields one smaller area at a time. Don‘t like attracting attention from the “new environmentalists” in my area. I haven’t owned a sprayer for over 10 years and quite honestly, don’t agree with spraying chemicals at nauseam like some farmers.

Just one man’s opinion here, but for the price of hay, I would never spend that kind of money to get rid of bumps and low spots and I mean no disrespect to repetes ideas. Maybe would consider for a higher profit/acre crop.

I have invested in tractor with suspensions and attachments with tandem walking beam suspensions in some cases. That is how I make a bumpy field feel smoother.

I am in total agreement Hay Dude. There is a limit to how much to do and how much roughness one can tolerate, just up to the individual to know each limit for themselves. I was thinking large discs that can work the ground down as opposed to rippers, that would be a bit extreme.

I think most everybody is dealing with the "leave it alone and let it grow back naturally" people. Those same people do nothing to restore their cities to what they looked like 100 years ago but rather focus on the rural areas. Think salmon spawning beds in downtown Seattle that once had fish runs in neighborhood creeks as compared to how rural folks need to stay 150' from any fish bearing stream.

Don't get me wrong, I do not believe in trashing the environment but I do tire of the double standard...

 

[MHarryE]

There is 2,4-D amine which will kill broadleafs like wild mustard, may knock back legumes depending on how heavy, but won't kill thistles. I use that on my underseeded small grain to kill mostly wild mustard and dragonhead mint. There is also 2,4-D ester which is more volatile making it easier to enter the plant and as a rule, can kill tougher to kill plants. 2,4-D amine is a commonly used brush killer here in MN. I have a hay field that for some reason has a lot of thistle in it this year. I am going to try 2,4-D ester because the amine hasn't touched it. A problem is how long the weed seed can survived in the soil. We need to knock back wild mustard every year. I read that mustard seed can survive 90 years in the soil. I'm 76 now so never going to get rid of it. Your area of MN - I bought used equipment from there. I got a very good price on a heavy disk due to blade damage from rocks. Do you have only a few large rocks with which to contend or do you have small rocks scattered? I would go more with chisel, cultivate, seed with a Brillion grass seeder. Grass seeds should only be 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. The grass seeder attachment on my grain drill places grass on top of the soil in front of the row units I tried to seed my small grain 1.5 inches deep. It gets the grass spread but this year I borrowed a Brillion and seeded grass following drilling small grain and have much better grasses - alfalfa, birdsfoot trefoil, and timothy. I had to mix brome and orchard grass in with the grain because of its large, fluffy seed. So planting once you get the soil ready will depend a lot on what you are going to raise.

 

[jstrick]

I don't know about your area, but here the county extension office has certain equipment like no till seeders that they loan out to farmers. It is a great program to work with small farmers who can't afford the expense of a big piece of equipment they would use once every few years. And the rental companies are much more into construction equipment than ag machinery.

 

[5030]

what do you mean by refitted? Is that when you plow over the hayfield and disc and reseed?

I've never plowed any hayfield. I'll chisel plow it and disc it if necessary but most times, when I overseed, I mix the seed with the granulated fertilizer I'm applying and the just drag mat it to set the seed. You don't want it deep ever so I don't use a planter to seed.