Perma-Chink for deck stain?

[Sigarms]

Has anyone used Perma-Chink for deck stain?

The product was recomeneded by the guy who built the deck, as his buddy who builds log homes swears by the product.

Not really familiar with it, but I guess that line of reasoning can make sense.

Just need to stain the new deck when the better weather shortly hits

Any other recommendations on a longer than normal last stain? It's a pretty big deck so the fewer times over the years doing it ourselves the better

TIA

 

[Duds13]

Take a look at this website for reviews on deck stains. At my old house I restored the deck and used the Armstrong Clark oil based stain. It was awesome. 3 years after applying there no signs of wear. Prep is everything though as I am sure you are aware. Most people think they can just apply stain to a deck with no prep work, then they blame the stain when it starts peeling, flaking, wearing off etc after one year.

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[ponytug]

@Sigarms What kind of wood is the deck, how is it fastened down, and what are your goals behind staining? Longevity? UV protection? Insects? Color? Wood preservation? How often would you like to repeat it?

All the best,

Peter

 

[EddieWalker]

How long has it been since the deck was built? Did you use pressure treated wood?

When the formulation and process for Pressure Treated Wood was changed, a new issue was created. The new process forces a massive amount of water into the wood, and it takes a very long time for that moisture to leave the wood. You'll see it when you cut it, the water will actually drip from the inside of it. Even when the outside feels dry and you can sand it, there is still water coming out of that wood for months afterwards.

I tell my clients not to stain or seal anything for at least six months.

The other issue with modern treated wood is the movement you get out of it. You really can't predict what it will do, but twisting and shrinking are very common as the wood dries. 45 degree corners on the railing are impossible to keep tight. As the wood shrinks, the gaps get bigger. Deck boards need to be installed tight because the gaps between them will get wider as the wood dries. I never use 5/4 boards anymore because the gaps are crazy after the wood dries. Even the length of the boards will shrink. I've had treated 2x6x12 foot long boards shrink 3/4 of an inch in length!!! A quarter to half an inch isn't uncommon. Used to be that you installed deck boards, Bark Side Up, but that doesn't matter anymore. When the water leaves the boards, you will get cupping regardless of how you lay our boards.

After it's dry and you know what you have to deal with, then you can sand the deck and stain it. I rent a 1x2 foot vibratory sander from Home Depot with a bunch of 18 grit sand paper to smooth out a deck after it's dried. I usually come back a year after I build the deck to do all the finish work. By then, I'm sure it's dry and there wont be any more surprises.

I've never used Perma-Chink, so I can't comment on it. I have used a few other brands, including Cabot, that all disappointed me. Now, I just use the oil based stains from Sherwin Williams. My personal favorite is the clear, that I use on Western Red Cedar, and the Cedar logs that I cut from my land. Clients like the solid stain, which gives a lot more color then the semi solid stains.

For most things, I brush it on, then wipe off the extra with an old t shirt. For decking, I just brush it on and let it all soak in.

 

[Camofurever1]

I thought perma-chink was what is applied to log homes to seal the gaps between the stacked logs? It is rubbery with a pumice added to it for texture.

 

[ponytug]

How long has it been since the deck was built? Did you use pressure treated wood?

When the formulation and process for Pressure Treated Wood was changed, a new issue was created. The new process forces a massive amount of water into the wood, and it takes a very long time for that moisture to leave the wood. You'll see it when you cut it, the water will actually drip from the inside of it. Even when the outside feels dry and you can sand it, there is still water coming out of that wood for months afterwards.

I tell my clients not to stain or seal anything for at least six months.

The other issue with modern treated wood is the movement you get out of it. You really can't predict what it will do, but twisting and shrinking are very common as the wood dries. 45 degree corners on the railing are impossible to keep tight. As the wood shrinks, the gaps get bigger. Deck boards need to be installed tight because the gaps between them will get wider as the wood dries. I never use 5/4 boards anymore because the gaps are crazy after the wood dries. Even the length of the boards will shrink. I've had treated 2x6x12 foot long boards shrink 3/4 of an inch in length!!! A quarter to half an inch isn't uncommon. Used to be that you installed deck boards, Bark Side Up, but that doesn't matter anymore. When the water leaves the boards, you will get cupping regardless of how you lay our boards.

After it's dry and you know what you have to deal with, then you can sand the deck and stain it. I rent a 1x2 foot vibratory sander from Home Depot with a bunch of 18 grit sand paper to smooth out a deck after it's dried. I usually come back a year after I build the deck to do all the finish work. By then, I'm sure it's dry and there wont be any more surprises.

I've never used Perma-Chink, so I can't comment on it. I have used a few other brands, including Cabot, that all disappointed me. Now, I just use the oil based stains from Sherwin Williams. My personal favorite is the clear, that I use on Western Red Cedar, and the Cedar logs that I cut from my land. Clients like the solid stain, which gives a lot more color then the semi solid stains.

For most things, I brush it on, then wipe off the extra with an old t shirt. For decking, I just brush it on and let it all soak in.

While I haven't experienced water dripping out of my beams, I completely agree that around here, they are definitely still very wet, and dimensionally unstable. Lately I have been buying Douglas Fir with the heavier ground contact treatments (UC4C) which are even wetter, but they have more copper in them. Around here the box store grades (UC3)start failing around year three when used for any soil contact.

I had a 4x12 pressure treated deck support beam warp badly enough to distort a 10x15' section of deck. Replacing it a year later was a bit of a pain.

For my personal use, I usually buy the pressure treated at least six months in advance and dry it stacks with feather boards. I then sort it by distortion for what I need it for. The other thing that I do is soak the ends with oil based copper naphthenate in several coats, and the same for any cuts until the wood quits absorbing it. My local sources for pressure treated aren't prime grade, so there are a fair number of knots and checks, even before they start to dry.

Personally, I have never been a fan of deck or shingle/shake treatments that aren't oil based. In the past, I have diluted oil based ones with thinner for the first coat to improve the penetration. YMMV. I try not to apply it on a sunny day, and definitely wear an organic vapor respirator. Trust me.

I guess that I have a couple of concerns about on sanding decks. One is that if the deck boards themselves are pressure treated, sanding liberates dust filled with the treatment compound(s), which are toxic, and the pressure treated layer which is pretty thin to begin with is reduced.

@EddieWalker your clients are so lucky to get cedar from you! That's a real gift.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Duds13]

You could buy the best stain money could get you, but if you don't properly clean the deck and let it dry prior to applying the stain you are wasting your time and money.

 

[Sigarms]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Deck was litterally replaced end of November last year.

I assumed to wait about 6 months which would put me into May.

Everything used for fastening were screws and bolts.

Pressure treated wood from lowes.

Due to the size of deck and stairs, would prefer to keep staining to a minimum (not every 2-3 years if that makes sense).

The perma chink was what the one guy swore by. Yes, for log homes, apparently they make a brand for deck staining, not familiar with it at all, which is why I asked. I'm guessing it's the "deck defense" product, but hard finding real life experiences.

Deck Defense-One-Coat Deck Finish (1 Gallon)

Deck Defense is the best wood stain for your decks, rails and fences. It has been engineered for better performance, longer life, and easier application. Although it is a totally waterborne product, Deck Defense has penetrating properties like oil finishes, but unlike oil-based products, it...

www.loghomeshoppe.com

My first thought was oil based myself.

Needless to say, sanding was in the plans.

 

[Duds13]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Deck was litterally replaced end of November last year.

I assumed to wait about 6 months which would put me into May.

Everything used for fastening were screws and bolts.

Pressure treated wood from lowes.

Due to the size of deck and stairs, would prefer to keep staining to a minimum (not every 2-3 years if that makes sense).

The perma chink was what the one guy swore by. Yes, for log homes, apparently they make a brand for deck staining, not familiar with it at all, which is why I asked. I'm guessing it's the "deck defense" product, but hard finding real life experiences.

Deck Defense-One-Coat Deck Finish (1 Gallon)

Deck Defense is the best wood stain for your decks, rails and fences. It has been engineered for better performance, longer life, and easier application. Although it is a totally waterborne product, Deck Defense has penetrating properties like oil finishes, but unlike oil-based products, it...

www.loghomeshoppe.com

My first thought was oil based myself.

Needless to say, sanding was in the plans.

You may already know this, but even though the deck is new make sure you use a deck cleaner after sanding and then a brightener to open the wood's pores to help the stain soak in and adhere better. The Armstrong Clark stain I used covers a lot of square footage, so with a large deck it may be another reason for consideration.

 

[Snobdds]

How long has it been since the deck was built? Did you use pressure treated wood?

When the formulation and process for Pressure Treated Wood was changed, a new issue was created. The new process forces a massive amount of water into the wood, and it takes a very long time for that moisture to leave the wood. You'll see it when you cut it, the water will actually drip from the inside of it. Even when the outside feels dry and you can sand it, there is still water coming out of that wood for months afterwards.

I tell my clients not to stain or seal anything for at least six months.

The other issue with modern treated wood is the movement you get out of it. You really can't predict what it will do, but twisting and shrinking are very common as the wood dries. 45 degree corners on the railing are impossible to keep tight. As the wood shrinks, the gaps get bigger. Deck boards need to be installed tight because the gaps between them will get wider as the wood dries. I never use 5/4 boards anymore because the gaps are crazy after the wood dries. Even the length of the boards will shrink. I've had treated 2x6x12 foot long boards shrink 3/4 of an inch in length!!! A quarter to half an inch isn't uncommon. Used to be that you installed deck boards, Bark Side Up, but that doesn't matter anymore. When the water leaves the boards, you will get cupping regardless of how you lay our boards.

After it's dry and you know what you have to deal with, then you can sand the deck and stain it. I rent a 1x2 foot vibratory sander from Home Depot with a bunch of 18 grit sand paper to smooth out a deck after it's dried. I usually come back a year after I build the deck to do all the finish work. By then, I'm sure it's dry and there wont be any more surprises.

I've never used Perma-Chink, so I can't comment on it. I have used a few other brands, including Cabot, that all disappointed me. Now, I just use the oil based stains from Sherwin Williams. My personal favorite is the clear, that I use on Western Red Cedar, and the Cedar logs that I cut from my land. Clients like the solid stain, which gives a lot more color then the semi solid stains.

For most things, I brush it on, then wipe off the extra with an old t shirt. For decking, I just brush it on and let it all soak in.

I have really grown to hate pressure treated wood.

I have found using kiln dried wood with a good, coating of oil preservative, holds up just as well as pressure treated wood. The new PT formula doesn't really do much anymore, IMHO.

I have a trailer deck that I put all 2x8 pressure treated boards down. They all cupped, shrank, and pulled back from the locking tab. I ripped it all out and put down doug fir and slather it each year with new motor oil and diesel fuel. It has lasted twice as long as the PT with no shrinkage. It's still going strong.