Planning for a new sub-panel

[ultrarunner]

The city required load calcs for each individual circuit and for the panel on the last home I wired. They had a formula for calculating assumed load based on the size of the panel, size of the house and number of circuits. Basically, it worked out to the more circuits per square foot of house, the less the assumed load on each individual circuit.

The city also required outlets to be on 12 ga, 20 amp circuits. Garbage Disposal, Dishwasher and Microwave each required individual, dedicated circuits.

14 ga was only allowed to service 15 amp lighting circuits with the exception that you could have a wall clock outlet on the lighting circuit.

In my area, most of the electricians don't bother with 14 ga anymore.

 

[tommu56]

SnoFalls
Is the power three phase?
if it is it might be a current transformer cabinet

Is the meter (on the outside) centered on the big box with the seals on it?
if so it looks like they daisy chained power in to building and back out to some were else. It is sort of confusing with the wires coming out of left side of lower box in spliced trough and back in to lower box. some better pictures might help

I would open sealed box and see whats in side or call the electric co and have them open it and explain.

tommu56

 

[BobRip]

The city required load calcs for each individual circuit and for the panel on the last home I wired. They had a formula for calculating assumed load based on the size of the panel, size of the house and number of circuits. Basically, it worked out to the more circuits per square foot of house, the less the assumed load on each individual circuit.

The city also required outlets to be on 12 ga, 20 amp circuits. Garbage Disposal, Dishwasher and Microwave each required individual, dedicated circuits.

14 ga was only allowed to service 15 amp lighting circuits with the exception that you could have a wall clock outlet on the lighting circuit.

In my area, most of the electricians don't bother with 14 ga anymore.

I would stick with 20 amp 12 guage wire for all outlets. This is somewhat overkill, but it keeps from tripping breakers if you have some light loads and then plug in a large load (vacuum cleaner, saw, etc). But for lighting 15 amp 14 guage is fine. Save some money on the wiring and make the wiring easier.

This is getting complicated and I think you need to get an electrician involved. It would be worth paying him to look at what you have and make suggestions even if you do most of the work. Pay him for a day and have him help you get started. IMHO

 

[SnoFalls]

SnoFalls
Is the power three phase?
if it is it might be a current transformer cabinet

honestly I dunno ... I suspect it might be tho.

Is the meter (on the outside) centered on the big box with the seals on it?

it's not centered on it, but a conduit runs from the big box to the meter.

if so it looks like they daisy chained power in to building and back out to some were else. It is sort of confusing with the wires coming out of left side of lower box in spliced trough and back in to lower box. some better pictures might help

not daisy chained ... I can see both individual lines running down the pole to underground. Our house is fed from a seperate pole (via above ground line)

I would open sealed box and see whats in side or call the electric co and have them open it and explain.
tommu56

This is getting complicated and I think you need to get an electrician involved. It would be worth paying him to look at what you have and make suggestions even if you do most of the work. Pay him for a day and have him help you get started. IMHO

yes, the day is coming where a pro is coming out ...

thx all for the feedback so far.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Well said.

With the load described 200Amp is plenty, breaker space is what is usually lacking. My dad has more load than that in his house which is still fed with a 60Amp main, which is what was used 50 yrs ago. I don't even think the lights dim when he fires up the welder.
I prefer lights on 15Amp circuits and outlets on 20 amp circuits. The code allows mixing them on 15 amp, but the cost difference in a couple rolls of wire is really insignificant to the advantange. Also remember by code there is a limit to the number of outlets per circuit which you have to calculate when laying out the circuits. Start with section 210 of the NEC.

As for the box with 2 wires in and 8 out, all boxes have a capacity. Most plastic ones are stamped with the wire count. See section 370-16 of the NEC for details. That box might be legal, depending on the depth. If not, you could put an extension on the box to make it bigger.

Looking at the pics, it's hard to tell whats going on. By the size of the bottom box, probably just a big junction box, doesn't look nearly big enough to be a transformer. If it was a transformer, there would be a nameplate on it with all the info. I assume the outside meter picture is right behind the horizonal trough you have open. The wiring size doesn't look big enough to be 200A. Look at the wire and see if you see the size stamped on it.
Do wires exit the back in the center of the trough? hard to tell from the pic, thought maybe that was where it went to the meter and back. Notice from the outside meter pic there is no conduit, so it is feed from inside. If not here, then in the big box on the bottom feeds in and out of the meter.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

oops, should have read the last post......

Nothing in the pics make me think it is 3 phase. It would be very unusual for a building like this to have 3 phase supply, although I could be wrong.

I suspect the reason the bottom box is sealed, is because it feeds the meter. They definitely don't like you feeding circuits from before the meter.

Don't be surprised if the electrician can't help with the load calculations, they're not design engineers. Most however, know the proper number of outlets etc. per circuit because they put them in all the time.

 

[schmism]

you might find this of some help (i shure did)

Detached Garahe - show all

Im fairly shure my utility is asshatish and doesnt allow multi tap meter bases so ill have to dig up one of those key tap boxes....