Pond advice.

[Roady]

Now that I've got about 100 hours seat time on my new tractor I'm ready to tackle a project I've been wanting to do since I was 15 years old..(I'm 35 now...) My parents own about 35 acres. Most of it is leased to a local farmer for crops but in the middle is a hollow with 2 dams that have been there for about 50 years. Years ago we stocked both with sun fish and large mouth bass. The lower dam is now producing some really nice fishing. The majority of the bass range from 7 to 18 inches with a couple of whoppers in the 21+ range. Everything in the upper dam (pictures) has died off except for the sunnies. I think several factors are involved. It's pretty small but I think the main reason is someone put 5 carp in there years ago and they just create muddy water and low oxygen levels.

So I want to do something but I have a couple of options. Looking at the pictures, would it be best to dig down, expanding the dam, or would it be best just to create a new breast and make a third dam. The 2nd option is obviously a lot easier but when I'm done, I still have a useless dam. I like the idea of expanding, but I realize I have a enormous amount of dirt to remove with a 27 hp tractor with a 50 in bucket. Either way, I want a huge body of water and as deep as I can get it. I would like to shoot for the 15 foot range.

The surrounding area is perfect for any option. Natural springs keep water flowing pretty well and it's all clay underneath. I really want the ability to grow some enormous fish when I'm done. I'm considering walleye and stripped bass hybrid for this pond with minnows as the baitfish.

So what would you guys do?


Roady

 

[EddieWalker]

If you do this, you need to realize that it's going to be 100 times bigger, harder and more expensive then you think it will be. Are you the type who finishes what you start? If so, go for it!!!

When I dug my small 3/4 acre pond, all I had was my backhoe. It has a one yard bucket, which helped, but it's also 2wd, which was a challenge. It was a mudhole that was holding water up to 2ft deep in areas, but mostly it just dried out except for a few areas. When I got the backhoe in there, I sunk. The silt was hard to walk on, hard to drive my truck across, but too soft to support my backho. It was a nightmare that took all day to get out of. I wasn't stuck, but I was severly delayed.

Something like this should be done to the extreme. Go all out and make it like you've dreamed of it looking like. Any shortcuts that you take will just be something that will bother you down the road. The only reason for shortcuts is to save time and money. If you are not prepared to put both into it, don't do anything.

Hiring it out is always a nice option, but probably extremly expensive and cost prohibitive. I know that I could never afford to have hired either of my ponds out. My large pond took me two years to dig and cost me more money and time then I thought possible. Somehow, I came up with what I needed to keep it going and in the end, I have a pond much better then I had hoped for.

Do it right and you will create something that you will be proud of the rest of your life. Do it wrong and you have .....

Eddie

 

[Treemonkey1000]

There is another thread on here about one guy that built a lake. In that is a thread to people that want or make ponds on their property. You could just Google it. I would think that if you get the ponds iced over that might not help. Low oxygen is a big problem. Is there any way you can create a stream or a falls to add oxygen without breaking the bank? I would think going deeper would help a lot. Problem with that is getting your tractor stuck on the bank. Maybe create a coffer dam to shrink the pond while you dig out a deeper portion on the other side? There are a lot of smart folks on here that will give you some great advice. Let me know when you are done. I'll bring my fishing pole

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Some people around here I know swapped the top soil for excavating work. You might want to look into it.

I know walleyes like the cooler water, therefore, usually means depth.

 

[Roady]

Eddie,

Your lake build project thread is what originally brought me to this forum a year ago. I enjoyed following along and it was a real inspiration for me. It turned out beautiful. Could you explain a little about the costs you incurred? With the layout of my property, I already have 2 sides and a dam breast that have withstood the test of time (and floods). Besides the fuel and possibly a water pump, I really can't see me wrapping up much money in this. What I do worry about is something you touched on, getting stuck. Right now the water table is pretty high. I'm going to need a dry summer to get the depth I want.

As for hiring out, I really really want to accomplish this on my own. I enjoy being on my tractor to much to let anyone else have all the fun.

Thanks
Roady

 

[EddieWalker]

Roady,

Some of the cost issues were from all the diesel I used digging. I had an original plan to build a low dam that was going to be just 4feet tall and not very wide. As I got to pushing dirt and seeing what that looked like, I realized that I had totally understemated how much dirt it would take to look like I wanted it to. I had hoped for an average depths of 6 feet. I'm over 8 feet deep with the extra dirt that I dug for the increased size of the dam.

I really didn't have a budget or plan out how much fuel that I'd use, but if I had, I don't know if I would have done it. Some months I just filled my 200 gallon tank twice. I remember one month that I went through 600 gallons!!!! I blew hoses on a regular basis and went through at least 20 gallons of hydraulic oil each month. Filters and engine oil was also part of it, but also just a normal part of preventive maintenance.

Having to rebuild the engine in the dozer was a HUGE setback that I never expected. I'm no mechanic and I have a limited budget. I had to do some extra work, cut a few corners on other things in life to get the money for the parts. There was nothing left over for hiring it out, so I did it meyself with allot of advice from some of the guys here.

On my small pond, I ran into a time crunch. Winter was coming and I couldn't move dirt in the rain. After awhile, I realized that moving the dirt to where I wanted it was taking too long. I started piling up the dirt right next to the pond so I could move the dirt out three times as fast. Of course, I had to come back later to move that dirt pile at a later time. That ended up taking almost a year to get rid of when I had some free time.

I've had both of my ponds full for awhile now, and I still marvel at them. I've tried to think of things that I could have done better, or changes that I might have made, and I come up blank. I don't know where it came from, but I made something beyond my skills or ability. Maybe I got lucky?

Eddie

 

[Tororider]

Eddie,
You give yourself far too little credit.

 

[firefighter9208]

Not to rain on your parade, but Eddie has the proper equipment to build a pond. Dump truck, Dozier, Backhoe. I don't think a small CUT will suffice. A 40,000# dozier will move and pack the dirt a whole lot better.

400-600 gallons of diesel a month!! That's $1600-$2400 a month for fuel alone. No wonder the guy that built our pond got $85.00 an hour for a dozier, and $100.00 an hour for an excavator. Of course he built it in no time (1 acre 6-8' deep) and it only cost about $8000.

He hauled in 40 tandem dump trucks of clay to build the core. Used a CAT loader with a 6' bucket to dig the core to solid rock, mixed the clay with dirt on site, spread with the loader in 6" lifts, and packed the clay in the core with a vibrating packer.

We had the worst drought in 100 years last summer and I only lost about 4' of water to evaporation. Most of the ponds around us went dry. I did put in a aerator to keep the oxygen level up, but had no problem with fish dying.

When I asked if he would guarantee it not to leak, he said, "If it does leak that's the worst advertising I can get, so I will build it right to start with". As far as I'm concerned he did.

Me neighbor has a pond that's about 2 acres. It doesn't have a properly constructed dam (no core) and it will go dry in about 2 weeks after the rains stop in the spring. Nothing looks as bad as a big empty hole growing weeds. IMHO anyway.

Chris

 

[ampsucker]

here's my .02 from reading up on dnr pond publications and trying fix problems with existing ponds.

it is far easier to do it right the first time than fix it later.

fish kill is usually due to oxygen problems or runoff. rapid plant die off leads to depleated oxygen levels due to decomposition which is a leading cause of fish kill. depth is the other issue. a pond needs to be at least 8 feet deep (water, not banks and after several years of bank erosion) for the dnr to stock it with fish in missouri. (a good general guideline) that is because it gives them a place to go in the coldest winter time and the hottest summer time and also contributes to sunlight shading and an area of reduced plant growth (UV penetration).

shallow ponds are often the result of bank erosion. this usually occurs when the banks are not built steeply enough and the wave action of wind blowing across the pond allows the banks to slowly be gravitationally pulled to the lowest part of the pond. to help minimize this use steep banks, rip rap rock or a very good cover crop on the banks, and use wind breaks on the leeward side.

to combat summer overheating (and corresponding low 02 levels) in summer, use decidiuous trees on the south and west exposure for shading. when the leaves are off in the winter, they will also allow some heating from the winter sun.

runoff is difficult to control if you have a nice lawn up hill from your pond. anything you do to the lawn (fertilizer, herbicide, pesticide) is going to end up on your pond eventually unless it decomposes first. plan accordingly.

bank and dam maintenance is important. banks and dams must be kept mowed so trees do not grow. tree roots that eventually die and decay leave passages for leakage to occur. same with mole tunnels and gophers/beavers.

a pond should have a highwater spillway or drain pipe installed. when the heavy rains come, this will keep the bank from eroding at the lowest point where overflow occurs. a well designed drain is low maintenance, does not allow seepage (has seepage collars in place) and has a screen to avoid clogging by debris or animal activity (on both ends).

in short, a good design is not easy to achieve without some research and help. contact your local university extension office for details in your area.

depth is the other

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Roady,


Its hard for me to make a recommendation from the pictures alone, but from what I can see I think I would go with your "create a new dam" option.

I love your DIY attitude, but have to warn you that w/27 hp tractor as your equipment it is going to take you a long time, a really long time to do this project. To kind of get a handle on it, calculate the number of cubic yards of dirt you will have to move and then calculate how long it will take you on your tractor to do 1 cu. yard of dirt....your tractor time should be measured operating in clay to be realistic.

If you are still standing after you see that number of how long it will take, then maybe you can pull it off. I built my first pond at 10 years of age using a hand guided sled pulled by a poppin Johny...I was on the sled, my dad on the Johnny. It can be done, but it is a serious undertaking.

Soil compaction probably won't be an issue because you are going to make so many trips over that ground with your tractor and bucket. A tractor with a load of dirt actually gives more compaction (in the tire tracks) than small dozers. Time is going to be one of your biggest issues I think.

I really think you should consider renting a small dozer on occasions to dig material. Use the dozer to dig out a huge pile of dirt and then later on move the dirt, one bucket at a time with your tractor. I built a beautiful 2 acre pond that exact way just a few years ago....except I bought the small dozer instead of renting it. Even with the assistance of a small dozer it took me several months to complete that project.

Do your homework and make sure you know what you are up against before you ever turn the first dirt....that way you will know what lies ahead.

Best of luck to you!!!