Pond Building, Hindsight?

[LazyK]

A really well-fed looking land or river otter cruises through my area every summer around duck hatching time or just before. I really would like to suicide him or trap his duck-kill'in [censored] and give him/her to the zoo. I've got three Rotts, level 2 Schutzhund trained, but I'm a-feared they otter not take on the otter! If it's mate was nearby, by
by two years of my training efforts and three good friends.
'Nother pond goodie was the 875' of 3-rail 2x6,
6x6 post fence the Kitsap County, state and feds built and subsidized. They brought in a crew of 5 16-18 yr old guys(Job Core from Olympia) I had to front the money and delivery of materials to the job site. My cost,after calling in some favors at the lumber yard...$875
The Wetlands Protection boys built it in 4 days.(Hell for stout) Gave me a 5th free day of labor with the crew and supervisor to erect t-posts and 4x4 pasture fence around the whole back side of the pond. Ten days later I received a $1200 check from the Kitsap County Water Quality folks reimbursing me their estimated cost of materials for the job.

OK, you say, Where's the hook??

In writing, reviewed by my attorney, a bi-lateral agreement saying basically: If I kept my horses, by virtue of this cool fence, away from my pond, a certain distance...for 10 years...the fence was free of incumberances.
If I wanted to water my livestock or any thing contrary to leaving the pond for nesting birds etc...I could reimburse the county for the pro-rated depreciated value of the fence, and the deal was through. No eminent domain, no Protected Species Act of '74, '82.....ad nauseum, no Wetlands R2D2 fine print. All this happened 8 years ago. 2 more years and I'll be able to take down a 10' section and let my tractor buddies drive right into the pond to change their oil and wash their rigs!
Seriously, I found out that there are mega-bucks out there, in all states, that these bunny-stroking, tree- hugging, sprout-eating pencil-necked burearcrats HAVE to spend this nifty SAVE THE POND money or loose it...ie their power base. I'm on a rant, but there's fun duckets to be had doing tractor related stuff. (Tim Allen noises)
P.S. Being fairly new to this fine forum, I do not want to appear to be a 'wiseguy' or a man of glib, shallow inconsiderations of others' sensitivity.
There is the 'joke' world and there is the real world. I trust we all can lighten up...or...get a cup.

Lazy K - Chip <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by LazyK on 11/5/00 01:13 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[LazyK]

My neuron just woke up. Your idea is do-able and maintainable. Thank you.
Digging out the pond right to the vertical face of the bank would make the DBH (dreaded blue....) wear chest waders if he's going to ply his critter killing talents.
These guys are indominable. I wish I had their patience and
eyesight when I fish.
You really have the spirit of DBH Zero Tolerance with the 'scare-heron.' Perhaps a motion detection device mated to an M-80 fuse igniter would get his attention. Ah, life's too short. I'll get a cup.

Lazy K - Chip

 

[uppermich]

If you build it so that it gets deep quickly, the herons have no chance to do much fishing, but there's still the otters and fish eating ducks to contend with. This also virtually eliminates weeds and cattails, so I put a pile of brush right into the pond to give the smaller fish some cover.

Last year I built a floating dock - two 4x8 sections with an 8x8 at the end - Build it bigger for more than 3 or 4 people. I used treated wood with styrofoam underneath to float it rather than barrels. I really love sitting on the water like that, but you need "sea legs" to walk on it.

My pond is small and "P" shaped with the main part about 75x150 and built in a ravine. The water level can change substantially with heavy rains, so I have two long pipes lightly driven in and collars on the dock for it to ride up and down with the change in levels. Don't drive them in too far cause they're a pain to remove for winter and reinstall in spring.

Pat (Techno-Tractor Mom)

 

[LazyK]

Pat, good going on building such a stout dock/float. I've wrapped styro bats, logs about 2'x2'x8', with chicken wire in order to keep water critters(muskrats, otters, beavers, loons, greebs, rats...you know,
all the shagnasty furbizoids , from gnawing and pecking your floats for nesting insullation. They ain't stupid, but highly destructive.
Thanks for the specific
hints re: anti- Heron ideas.(I've heared they're delicious)

Lazy K - Chip

 

[Keoke]

Chip, or anybody out there. Could you steer me to any web sites that have information on pond building? For example what is the advantage of a standpipe vs just a simple out pipe.

thanks,
george

 

[Anonymous Poster]

On the subject of ponds, I'm curious to know if any other pond owners have run into this dilemma. Since I'm located a couple miles from town, in the case of a fire, there are no hydrants nearby thus any water for firefighting had to be trucked in (hence one good reason I built the pond). With this in mind, on my homeowners policy they list the distance to the nearest fire hydrant. Out of curiosity I called my insurance agent to inquire whether the fact that I had a 200,000 gallon "hydrant" in the backyard would affect my insurance premium or not. I had heard that a source of water located near your dwelling was considered an asset, in terms of fire protection. It still is in my opinion BUT not in the eyes of my insurance company. They politely told me in fact it was considered a liability (like a big inground pool) and should have a fence around it!! Lack of legal tender prevents that from happening. Anybody have any similar experiences??

 

[Bird]

Russ, as far as I know, all insurance companies are the same on this topic. Of course, we don't have fire hydrants out here in the country either, but we're right at a Corps of Engineers Lake with boat launching ramps, and many farmers have "stock tanks" so while I was on the volunteer fire department, we bought a gasoline powered floating pump that's carried on top of the primary truck. It can, of course, be used just as a pump hooked to a fire hose, but we got it primarily because it can be used to refill the tank on the trucks. Naturally, that doesn't help anyone with their insurance premiums, but it can help fight fires a little faster than going elsewhere to refill tanks.

Bird

 

[jgh]

11/5

In Va, we have a concept known as the "Dry Hydrant", where a plumbed connection is made to a natural water source that a pumper truck can hook up to.

Commonly rural fire depts see to putting these in, at public cost, I believe. One downside is that you must allow access to the hydrant at all times even for off-property fires, and the usage could damage your water life--fish, etc.

Here in Goochland County, they are marked on our local map as well. I will try to get a picture of one and edit it into this post tomorrow.

Surely there is an insurance agent on here who could comment on whether fire rating should reflect this. Or you could call your local farm bureau office, etc.

Good luck,

Jim

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bird and JGH,

Prior to the excavation of my pond, I contacted the local fire chief and asked if they would like me to install a dry hydrant for them but they declined. They stated that they carry an apparatus like you described Bird. Just throw it into the pond and crank up the pumps. Of course my pond will always be open to the fire department should they need to use it but to have the insurance company tell me its a liability, thats the thorn in my side.

Russ

 

[LazyK]

Russ, my pond covers roughly 1 1/2 acres depending on time of year. It's inflow source is primarily artisian with supplementary water coming from hay field drainage and a catch system of gutters/collection conduits/cisterns/pipes
which pull the rain fall off a 200'x80' roof system over one of the arenas. I roughly worked out the math on how much is collected...aprox 10K
gal/1 inch rain fall.

Reason for all this description/background is that I am recovering some of my costs for this infrastructure through government grants and reductions in my fire insurance premiums.
1. Grants: $2200 one-time subsidy for rain gutters and related materials specified by the Dept. of Environ.Quality and the Wash. State/County
Water Quality Dept. (erosion control $'s available that year...they came to me)

2. Insurance- $450 savings on LazyK, Inc.
yearly comprehensive premium cost. "Down" from a total bill of $3800.
The pond plus tractor plus tanker trailer w/gas pump and spray boom qualified as a verified fire supression capability. Also, 2ea- 1100gal concrete septic tanks located near the barn helped to qualify for premium discount as accessible water for fire supression. Tanks were $480/ea delivered.

During a power outage about 3 winters ago we had a pretty good fire
going outside the main barn. No emerg. gen. to power up the down-hole water pump etc.
Pond water was used to put that puppy out

What a bummer that your insurance catagorizes an accessible source of water as a liability.
Hope you can utilize your pond on another angle...all things considered, they're beautiful!

Lazy K - Chip