post hole digging - in winter

[JJT]

My condolences, losing a pet is very tough.

I'll second JDGreen, use a pickaxe. I've had to bury 2 big dogs, (newfoundlands) in the past 15 years in the middle of the winter. 2 guys can get the job done in 2 hours. If you have any snow cover you might luck out and find less than a ft or 2 of frost.

 

[Junkman]

My condolences to your friend in the loss of his companion...
The jack hammer is how it is done in cemeteries usually. Some of the larger cemeteries have a propane heater that they set up over the grave site and run for 24 hours to thaw the ground. Last week I worked a funeral and I asked how deep the frost was in the ground (Southbridge MA) and the fellow that dug the grave told me 9". This cemetery uses a jack hammer to open the ground before digging with the backhoe.
Some veterinarians will keep the remains in their freezer until the spring when the ground thaws. This is what our vet did for us a few years ago. They didn't even charge for the storage. I don't know what cremation cost are, not ever having to ever deal with that aspect of loosing a pet. We have always brought our pets home. I have always been lucky enough to have either hand dug the grave beforehand knowing the pet was going to die, or had someone with a backhoe available at the time is was necessary if it happened suddenly. It is never an easy task and I hate the thought of having to do it in the future. Unfortunately I am dealing with this again myself..... Just praying that the diagnosis is wrong..

 

[narcnh]

Junkman, it's not your buddy in your pic, is it? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

CJ7, the jackhammer is probably the fastest method, but your friend might want to consider the old-fashioned pick-ax. Without trying to sound like a shrink, I think the physical labor would help him deal with his grief, sort of personalizing the effort. Had to dig a grave for the family dog years ago and it felt GOOD to dig it by hand, my parting gift to a good friend.

Just my two cents.

 

[del]

No neighbor with a backhoe? I can't imagine turning down
even someone I don't know who is local and needs that kind
of help for that purpose.

Otherwise it depends on where you are, how deep the ground
is frozen. You could pop a hole with a pick or even a big
cement drill. If you have a box scraper you could take out
all but the center scarifier, lower it in the hole a little
and pull gently, you may be able to pull up the ground.

They aren't designed to be pulled with only one tip down,
that's really a job for a single point plow, but if you're
careful you shouldn't bend it.

I remember using the backhoe at some property once when I
couldn't hardly dig with it but once I got a crack I could pull
up big 2x3 foot pieces of dirt like pulling up a sidewalk.

But that was only about 4" of frozen ground.

You probably already to know to keep it well away 100 ft plus
from a well or nearest point a neighbor could put a well in.

Had a cat die once, good old pal, wanted to bury it in something.
Couldn't think of anything, then had a flash. Went to the
hardware store, bought a new mailbox. As the guy was ringing
it up I started bending the flag back and forth until it
broke off. Cashier just stared at me while I was doing it and
finally yelled out "YOU CAN'T RETURN THAT!!!!" My friend was
falling down laughing...


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[billfires]

cj7, do you have any land that is heavily wooded? I know that when we were building our house the frost was 15" deep where there was exposed gravel but only 4-5" where there was trees, leaves and organic soil. Bill C

 

[del]

Junkman,

As to a pet's diagnosis, I had a cat that was diagnosed with
leukemia, the vet said it is best to put it to sleep, I said
run the test again, came back positive again.

I brought her home to die.

She lived quite happily for at least 3 YEARS.

Another cat tangled with a car, pelvis broken off back, one
hip broken off pelvis.

Bought him home, kept him in bathroom for month or two? He
healed up and never at least vocalized any discomfort or
acted like anything hurt.

But to see him run after that always brought a bit of laughter.

He ran like he was, well, not put together right, because he
wasn't! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif (I probably look as funny running even though
I'm all in one piece)

Lived for 9 years after that.

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[KubotaSteve]

I was out loading some wood with the FEL the other day and the wood was froze to the ground and I hooked under it and pulled up a chunk of frozen sod and the dirt under was just as soft. So I was thinking that you could use a pick to dig a trench so far (about the width of your bucket) and then hook your FEL in it and curl it. It should break the frozen sod, then use your post hole digger. It is worth a shot at the very least.
You may even want to try a subsoiler to cut through the frost.
Good luck

 

[keeney]

The temperature of the ground when you go several dozen feet deep is generally equal to the average annual temperature of that location. During the winter, the heat of the ground is being transferred up to the cold surface, creating a temperature gradient from the average ground temp to the surface temp.

A rule of thumb that I have heard is that putting insulation over the ground will prevent about as many inches of frost as the R-value of the insulation (assuming it is over a wide enough area that conduction from the sides is not an issue).

A deep pile of leaves, deep snow cover, thick vegetation cover or other natural insulators can prevent or reduce the frost depth.

However, it may not be possible to thaw existing frost in the time desired by just adding insulation. I suspect that it would take weeks to thaw the frost that way.

- Rick

 

[avclay]

How about using a salamander tented with some insulation board? Make a four sided box (top and three sides), as big as you need the hole, with the insulation board and put the salamander in the opening. This works well keeping the heat focused (I used it on a well couple of weeks back) but I don't know how long it would take to get below the frost line. Its been real cold here, w/out much snow, but last year when we got a ton of snow early the ground never really froze.
Anyway, its probably worth the $20 of kerosene and a day or so to find out...

 

[rambler]

I'm in Minnesota, it's -19F right now, the high for the day was -11. I live where you have to burry water pipes 6' deep to prevent freezing, and due to a lack of insulating snow that is being tested this year....

You just can't practically thaw ground downward - heat rises, and cold creeps sideways underground - you don't get ahead of it. Insulation at this time of year only holds the cold in, any insulation put on the ground now would make this the last ground to thaw out in spring.

Lots of good ideas, and for 4-10" of frost the pick axe or electric/air hammer will work great. For really deep stuff, it'll work but tough going.

--->Paul