Propane conversion on my 425

[CreativeGuy]

MossRoad, you make a lot of great points about gas vs propane. Especially considering that I will probably be using "Artie" even less that most of you guys. Right now I would be better off putting the money into a flail mower option. (Which really is a priority for me)
As for Gas, I only use non-ethanol gas in any of my small engines including the 425.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MossRoad]

It's a waste of money to pay extra for ethanol free, but that's just my opinion. Everything I own is designed to run on E10. I'll keep using it. Good luck to you, though. To each his/her own.

 

[ponytug]

While a 25HP propane engine and a 25HP gasoline engine have the same HP, converting a gas engine to a propane fueled engine does cause a drop in HP. Basically, you can't get enough fuel into the engine.

If it were me, I would run the PT for awhile and see if gas getting old becomes a problem. A propane carburetor ($190 on eBay.) is easy to buy and install, as would a propane tank. (For a lot less than $2k!) Switching to propane will clean out any residues.

In the old days, there was a substantial price advantage to propane, but in most of the country, you pay about the same per BTU.

I haven't had a problem with E10 gas, but I do add Stabil to the gas, and run SeaFoam/Carb cleaner through the engines regularly. I also try not to leave gasoline in small engine tanks.

FWIW: I did recently switch to NATO (Wavian) jerry cans, which seal much better than plastic ones. I got tired of plastic cans ballooning or sucking themselves into little raisins. I won't go back. It is so much nicer to be able to fill cans and put them in the car, and not have the smell of gas or diesel in the car afterwards. They also seal better against water, and keep the butane from leaking out of the gas.

All the best,

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, I can't see where it would cost $2K either. You can purchase a whole Kohler 25hp engine for LP for about $1700.

 

[marrt]

I hate 10% ethanol in small engines.

I have to agree with SpringHollow on this one. I have more than 20 gasoline engines (not counting vehicles) and I'm constantly cleaning carbs. I bought a large Dewalt power washer a couple years ago and have already cleaned the carb twice. When an engine won't run smooth and "hunts" for the right RPM, it's time to break out the ultrasonic cleaner and illegal carb cleaner. This seems to be especially common on Honda engines for some reason.

I think we have multiple problems colliding here. To hit emission targets in CA, I think modern carbs are likely built to a different level of precision inside. Add to this the propensity of ethanol fuel to gum up as it ages, plus act as a solvent to gaskets and other stuff and you have the recipe for a big problem.

My father has a very old tiller with a Briggs and Stratton engine and we've never been into the carb. Growing up, we never had the problems that are common today. Then again, you could smell more gas than smoke from the exhaust when these things were running.

This topic reminds me with the government's effort to stop fuel evaporation for common fuel cans. I have several metal fuel cans with a spring loaded lid. There's no evaporation and the lid (and metal can) helps keep the fuel fresh. On the other hand, when using the can, I spill FAR more fuel than when using an old can. Since there's no vent, the can can't get air when pouring and splashes all over the place. Yet another example of good intentions actually making the core problem worse.

 

[ponytug]

I agree with you that the higher tolerance probably don’t help. I also think part of the challenge is the higher oxidation potential of E10 fuel compared to older fuel.

You can try one of these, as they seal better;

If you use the CARB spouts, you will not spill much, if anything. The NATO spouts are much faster, but require some hand eye coordination not to spill.

All the best,

Peter

Just in time for New Years, you can get four for a little more than $220, plus a nozzle for $25. Not super cheap, but then it might be worth it not to be cleaning carbs....

 

[cqaigy2]

I'm pretty lucky as i don't seem to have any problems with the older or new engines on the ethanol laced gasoline, except when i forget to turn the fuel lever to the open position. I use plastic gas containers which i think reduce condensation of moisture and pretty religious about the gas treatment. Moisture in this climate is pretty high, even during our drought cycle. I have propane for my generator which doesn't get much use and i think it keeps better and it doesn't get very cold here.

 

[MossRoad]

I've got 3 old 6 gallon Blitz plastic gas cans with snap-on vent caps. The spout stores inside the can. At one point in time, Blitz was the world's largest gas can maker. They got sued out of business due to several people using gasoline to start fires, and having the cans explode. Google Blitz and lawsuits some time, its and interesting read. A sad combination of bad decisions by the gas pouring crowd and no flash arrestor on the spouts of the cans. Anyhow... the cans are probably 25+ years old now and still function fine. And as I've mentioned while beating my dead horse, I've not had any ethanol related issues using E10 in 30+ years.

How come so many folks report ethanol issues and issues of gas going bad? Heck, I've got an old '85 chevy pickup with a carb that sat in my back yard since around 1997. Every year or two I'd start it up and move it so I could mow the trees growing out from under it. For about 15 years it started with just a shot of starting fluid and a battery jump. That was sitting for 15 years with E10 in it. It doesn't start now due to I've pilfered too many parts off the engine.

Maybe its a regional thing and fuel additives?? I don't know. I can't think of any of my friends in this area that have had fuel issues and I know a LOT of people with a lot of toys/equipment. :confused3:

 

[jaxs]

It does seem odd how some are plagued by E-10 problems while others can't cause a problem even when they try.
So far,the only commonality I find is that people who experience no problems with E-10 often swear by Harbor Freight tools. If an engine has sat with E-10 and hasn't been run for more than a couple of years I almost always have to clean,repair or replace before getting it back in operation.

 

[MossRoad]

Heck, my in-laws gave us a 2.5hp Briggs engined lawnmower when we got married in 85. I NEVER changed the oil (just topped it off occasionally), never changed the spark plug, tapped out the air filter once a year, and never ran it out of fuel. Left it sit all winter long. After about 10 years of it starting 1st pull every spring, we started making a ritual of it, calling the wife and kids out to see of the mower would start first pull. I'd give it about 20 primes and yank the cord... BRRRrrrrrrrr! 1st pull.... 20+ years. I finally had to retire it when the deck got so cracked I couldn't repair it anymore...

Anyhow, 20+ years of E10, tank never drained, 1st pull starting... must be a fluke.