Recomendations for used equipment

[Anonymous Poster]

Hey Tileman,when I was much younger,and had more hair,my brother had a small excavating business,and I operated some of his stuff.I ran a 416 cat 4x4 TLB,great machine,it did everything well.My favorite machine of all time was his other machine,a Cat 931 shoveldozer with detachable backhoe and 4 way bucket.Pedal steer,left hand twist throttle and forward-reverse shift,and right hand joystick for the bucket.That Cat diesel would sing all day long,and I was 22 years old.Ah youth!

 

[JimmyO]

As for the backhoe I would reccomend a Case 580K or L. Preferably with 4wd, as backhoes don't do real well in any type of mud. If you are going to use it to dig foundations often, I would highly reccomend getting an Extend-a-Hoe. Also if you are a novice try to find one with the wmbble sticks. Personally I prefer the finger levers but that is only because that is what I learned on. The learjing curve should be shorter with the wobble stibks.

As far as dozers go, my preference is for a Cat D3, again because that is what I learned on. Assuming that you will be looking for something used, all but the newest models of Case dozers have finger lever steering that many operators have a hard time adjustinf to. The Cat has foot pedal steering clutches that are very easy to learn. I have never run a JD 450 so I can not tell you anything about the steering mechanism. However, I am fairly certain that the JD 450 is more along the size of a Case 650. The one contractor that we use that has JD dozers swears by them. However, his are very new machines that he only keeps 2 years so it is not a true test of what a used one would be like. Something that you will definitely want on a dozer that will be used for final grading is a 6-way blade. Also when looking at used dozers you really need somebody that knows how to judge the wear on the finals. A lot of people think that a loose track means worn out finals, and a tight track means good finals. However the track is tightened by a few squirts of a grease gun. What a loose track could mean is that the track adjustment seal is bad and needs replaced.(Inexpensive) It can also mean that the track links have stretched and a link needs removed. (Moderately Expensive) Or it micht mean that the rails are shot and need replaced.(Very Expensive) You also need to be able to judge the wear on the Sprocket and Idler. Be able to tell if a roller's seal is shot even if it looks brand new. What I am trying to demonstrate is that judging finals is very complex and unless you are sure you know what you are looking at, you should make sure that you have someone knowledgable present that can give it a very careful inspection.

Whatever you decide, take your time and do a lot of looking and learning first.

Jimmy

PS - A good way to tell how well a backhoe has been maintained is to go through and find all the grease fittings and give the machine a complete greasing. Grease fittings that will not take any grease(froze up), and pivot points that are dry are both sure signs mf poor maintenafce.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by JimeyO on 12/17/01 07:11 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[MikePA]

Your sage advice about knowing how to evaluate a dozer, or knowing someone who does, reminds me of the advertising slogan of a local furrier (many years ago). Their motto was, "If you don't know your furs, know your furrier." If I was buying a dozer, I'd need to trust the honesty of the dealer. If I was tempted to buy from a private seller, I'd pay to have a competent mechanic go over it.

When we bought our first horse, we knew very little, so we took along someone who did. Same applies to dozers.

 

[Jag]

I took a quick course at an auction once, asked an old operator about a D3 I was looking at. He took a quick look and pointed out everthing that was wrong he could see. Boy I was afraid.... I got him a cup of coffee and had a little walk around. The track tension means nothing unless it is really sagging.. He pointed out one dozer that had its track as tight as a banjo string.. He asked if I knew why. No. Just so they could load it and get it off the truck one more time with out slipping the track on the final drives.. Yes when you knew what to look for then, you could see that sprocket had jumped the drive links several times. Everything thing was shot and keeping the track that tight took out most of the loose play...

I do not understand about removing a link... I really need somebody to explain. I know from running my old motorcycles that if the chain is worn so much that you need to remove a link the whole chain is so far out of spec that it would ride up the sprocket teeth. Also if the machine was run very much like this before or after the link thing, not only did you need to replace the chain but also the drive and rear sprockets.....

 

[JimmyO]

I think that the principle holds true any time purchasing something used, that has value. I am a gun collector, and I can't tell you how many times I have seen people at gun auctions that were way off base in their bidding. Once, I went to an auction that was for about 35 mostly highend guns. The guns that had household names like Winchester wearing a Leupold scope went for more than the unfired Kimbers wearing Swarovski scopes. They were paying $750 for something worth $600 while letting me pay $600 for guns worth $2,000+. I am not complaining though.

Jimmy

 

[JimmyO]

I know from experience what you are talking about when it comes to motorcycles. However, I also know from experience that this works on dozers oand trackhoes. Never gave it much thought until you mentioned it though. I would assume that it is because there is only one sprocket on a dozer that it works. The front is an Idler and it is smooth. There is also more play on a dozer's sprocket than there is on a motorcycycles.

There are two ways to remove a link out of the rails(chain) on a dozer. The first is to remove the pad heat the link real hot with a torch and then drive the pin out with a sledgehammer. This gets tricky because you need a smaller pin to drive the link pin out. We had a setup that consisted of a slightly smaller pin welded to the one face of a sledgehammer. One man would hold the pin-sledgehammer on the link pin while another would strike the second face of the pin-sledgehammer with a second sledgehammer. I can tell you I am having trouble typing just remembering the sting that it would put it your hands if you were the "holder". The better way is to remove the tracks completely and take them to a shop that turns the pins professionally. They use huge hydraulic presses to press them out. "Turning Pins" is where they press the pin out, rotate it 180 degrees and press it back in. Gives new life to a set of rails, as the part that wears the worst is the bottom of the pins where it contacts the sprocket.

I truely am not 100% positive why it does no damage to remove a link but like I said, I am guessing it is because there is more play in them. Hope this helps some.

Jimmy