Removing dirt and going with concrete for barn.

[cat fever]

Muddy concrete can be slick, I had cow fall on concrete and break leg

I have thought about that. I may end up building a roof over the eating area to keep it dry, it will be facing south so that will help.

 

[EddieWalker]

To be blunt- the thinking is flawed. Concrete is a giant porous sponge. Between evaporation and the wicking action it has the potential to be a major issue. It's required by building code inside occupied structures.
As far as moisture escaping the concrete- that's why you wet your sand before you pour sidewalk, driveways and other non vapor barriered pours.
People assume concrete is waterproof- that's simply not the case- actually it's quite the opposite.

Blunt is good. Thank you. But I still don't understand how water can come up through concrete and then sit on concrete, but never go back down through concrete. I also didn't know that concrete is the opposite of waterproof. How do swimming pools, dams and even birdbaths hold water? But mostly I'm curious how water sill sit for days on top of a concrete slab after a rain while building a house. If you have walls framed up , and haven't cut the sill plates for the walls, that water can be an inch and a half deep, and never go anywhere.

 

[KennyG]

The deal with concrete is not "water coming through it" like a flow. Concrete is, by nature, somewhat permeable. Not as much as soil or a sponge, but if it is in contact with water it will pick some moisture, just like air or soil does, even if the "ground water" level is lower. That moisture will move through the concrete by osmosis. It may never be a problem, and, in an open or well ventilated building, it probably will never be noticed. However, if the ground is generally wet, it will probably reduce the life of the concrete. Kept dry, concrete will last for hundreds of years. I think the concrete is cheap insurance. As noted by Ed, it will slow the curing improving initial strength and long term keep it in better condition.

 

[cmyoung2]

Concrete outside for cows needs to have a rough finish for traction. A lot of dairies would groove the concrete when it was poured, fasten either rope, rebar or something to the final float. The grooves don't need to be real deep, 3/8-1/2, maybe 6" apart, and angled to the direction of slope so you can scrape without catching the grooves.

 

[RNeumann]

Blunt is good. Thank you. But I still don't understand how water can come up through concrete and then sit on concrete, but never go back down through concrete. I also didn't know that concrete is the opposite of waterproof. How do swimming pools, dams and even birdbaths hold water? But mostly I'm curious how water sill sit for days on top of a concrete slab after a rain while building a house. If you have walls framed up , and haven't cut the sill plates for the walls, that water can be an inch and a half deep, and never go anywhere.

This is a novel to respond- which I won't do- check the internet for more info. A couple of items to understand- evaporation, moisture content and wicking. Also need to have an idea about how a pool is built- the waterproofing isn't concrete. Dams are a whole different animal- they leak though. YouTube the Hoover Dam tour and note that the tunnels inside- the dam leaks. Houses with framed walls are on slabs with vapor barriers- the water can't seep down. Exterior slabs that get rained on hold the water because the soil around the slab is saturated- think mud.


Concrete Vapor Barrier - YouTube

 

[cat fever]

Concrete outside for cows needs to have a rough finish for traction. A lot of dairies would groove the concrete when it was poured, fasten either rope, rebar or something to the final float. The grooves don't need to be real deep, 3/8-1/2, maybe 6" apart, and angled to the direction of slope so you can scrape without catching the grooves.

Thanks, it will for sure be very rough.

 

[EddieWalker]

The deal with concrete is not "water coming through it" like a flow. Concrete is, by nature, somewhat permeable. Not as much as soil or a sponge, but if it is in contact with water it will pick some moisture, just like air or soil does, even if the "ground water" level is lower. That moisture will move through the concrete by osmosis. It may never be a problem, and, in an open or well ventilated building, it probably will never be noticed. However, if the ground is generally wet, it will probably reduce the life of the concrete. Kept dry, concrete will last for hundreds of years. I think the concrete is cheap insurance. As noted by Ed, it will slow the curing improving initial strength and long term keep it in better condition.

I understand about the wicking up of water and capillary action on objects, and have observed concrete in a puddle of water. The sides above the water will get wet, but 100% of the time, the top of the concrete remains dry. As a contractor, I relocate drain lines under concrete slabs maybe half a dozen times a year. In every case, the ground is so dry that I use a shovel bit in my SDS Max rotary hammer to dig it out. Why would there be moisture under a concrete slab in the first place? The building keeps it dry, and the ground sloping away keeps the water away?

 

[cat fever]

Sorry no pictures to back up my claim here, but I have been working on the ballast box. This baby is going to be impressive. I'll get pictures when I can. It will be 10 cubic feet in size, so roughly 1500 lbs. 2'x2'x30" and it will have a couple pipes for yard tools and a chain saw holder.
I'm hoping to be ready for concrete the week after next. All the dirt in the barn is leveled and ready for gravel.

 

[cat fever]

I have the ballast box built and ready for concrete. It's been raining a lot so I'm waiting for the mud to dry so the concrete truck can get to the barn without tearing up my road. Here's some shots of the box. I do have a chainsaw holder that I'll stick in the concrete while pouring.

 

[The Deerslayer]

Great idea to do it when the truck is there anyway. Looks like a great build and look forward to seeing the final product. Have been reading the thread as I plan to do something similar with our barn. One third of the area is already concrete, but hay and implement storage is currently pallets on top of dirt. Such a pain!