Egon
Epic Contributor
As mentioned by Don use a ride on trencher. They can usually go deeper that the walk behind. Just make sure it's all below the frost line.
Egon
Egon
Running Water Lines
- Thread starter Alan L.
- Start date
This is one of the faucets I installed. Like I said, it's not some fancy frost-free hydrant, just a hose bib screwed on PVC. Another advantage of Florida living...I also don't worry about the joints in the PVC. I thought about running the black poly tubing, but I would have had to cut it and install the adaptors every time I tee-d off for a hose bib, and I would have had a bear of a time handling that much 1-1/2" poly, so I went with the PVC.
Oh, yeah, almost forgot -- I went with the 1-1/2" because that's what the outlet of my pump is. If the outlet was 1-1/4", I don't think I would have gone up to the 1-1/2", but that's a question for a hydro engineer. I just brute-force that kind of engineering...
Oh, yeah, almost forgot -- I went with the 1-1/2" because that's what the outlet of my pump is. If the outlet was 1-1/4", I don't think I would have gone up to the 1-1/2", but that's a question for a hydro engineer. I just brute-force that kind of engineering...
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Hi Alan,
The walk behind trencher is gonna be allot cheaper then the rider. For only 350 ft, it's fine. I've got two 700 foot runs to dig in the next month or so and will use a walk behind for that.
On the PVC, be sure you get Schedule 40 with the bells on the end. The bells are much, much longer then buying unions to join your pipes. The water department in my area requires me to use purple primer and clear glue. They said that their results with any other glue has failed. Clear glue with purple primer will hold up to clay soils.
I like Don's solution to pumping water to his pond. I'm going a more simple route myself. I'm putting a timer on my pump and will run it so many hours every night. If it's not enough water, I will increase the run time.
For your spicket sticking up, I'd reckomend wraping it in foam insulation, then sleeving it with a 3 or 4 inch PVC pipe. At the top of the sleeve, cut a hole in the side, fit your spicket through it and glue it all together. Then put a cap on the sleeve for a nice clean look and to keep out moisture and debris.
Allot of RV Parks do it this way, which is how I plan to do it too.
I'm not a big fan of combining electrical and water in the same trench. It's illegal in most places with code. It also makes for a difficult repair if one or the other needs digging up again.
I'm required to have virgin soil seperating my lines.
If you don't need the electrical line just yet, I wouldn't do it. When you decide to build the gazebo, and size your electrical requirements, then worry about putting it in.
Eddie
The walk behind trencher is gonna be allot cheaper then the rider. For only 350 ft, it's fine. I've got two 700 foot runs to dig in the next month or so and will use a walk behind for that.
On the PVC, be sure you get Schedule 40 with the bells on the end. The bells are much, much longer then buying unions to join your pipes. The water department in my area requires me to use purple primer and clear glue. They said that their results with any other glue has failed. Clear glue with purple primer will hold up to clay soils.
I like Don's solution to pumping water to his pond. I'm going a more simple route myself. I'm putting a timer on my pump and will run it so many hours every night. If it's not enough water, I will increase the run time.
For your spicket sticking up, I'd reckomend wraping it in foam insulation, then sleeving it with a 3 or 4 inch PVC pipe. At the top of the sleeve, cut a hole in the side, fit your spicket through it and glue it all together. Then put a cap on the sleeve for a nice clean look and to keep out moisture and debris.
Allot of RV Parks do it this way, which is how I plan to do it too.
I'm not a big fan of combining electrical and water in the same trench. It's illegal in most places with code. It also makes for a difficult repair if one or the other needs digging up again.
I'm required to have virgin soil seperating my lines.
If you don't need the electrical line just yet, I wouldn't do it. When you decide to build the gazebo, and size your electrical requirements, then worry about putting it in.
Eddie
_RaT_
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Your right Eddie. The ride on around here will not only be far more costly to rent, but add in a trailer and a bare bones 3/4 ton truck to pull it. You could have it delivered , but that of course will cost you. Unless you need more width, more depth or on the side of a hill where you need to run perpendicular to the slope, a walk behind is very easy for just 350', thats not much. You can have it done rather quickly. For depth, width and hillsides, a ride on is the best choice.
RobertN
Super Member
Low voltage would be ok, like for 12v yard lights. 110vac line voltage would be an issue in the same tranch though.... You're right.
SHC-40 pipe in 20' sections should work fine. As mentioned, the type with the belled ends would be best. I use that around our clay and heavy rock.
SHC-40 pipe in 20' sections should work fine. As mentioned, the type with the belled ends would be best. I use that around our clay and heavy rock.
GaryQWA
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I need to run about 350 feet of water line. I plan to use 1.25 inch all the way - PVC that comes in 20 foot sections. I want to put in a couple of those frost-free faucets, but also I want to be able to pump water into my one-acre tank (pond), such that the pump will run 100% of the time during these periods.
I picture just having the open pipe sticking up and a 90 directing the stream to the tank, with a gate valve. Only problem is that it would be subject to freezing, but I don't know of a long neck frost-free setup for such a big faucet.
Any ideas? )</font>
Whatever your water source, it will have to be capable of all the water a 1.25" line can deliver with open discharge... that's a bunch of water and most wells may have a problem with the volume. I'd want an automatic control to shut off the pump if the source was inadequate. BTW, IIRC a 100' long 1" PE line can deliver 30+ gpm at 50 psi open discharge; as long as the pump/water source can deliver it.... which is an important consideration, especially if you're pumping form a well and it is being drawn down. That makes the pump have to work harder, so the right sized pump is a critical component to this project.
I suggest a 400' roll of 160 psi PE (polyethylene) tubing zig zagged in the trench to allow for contraction/expansion. It's inexpensive and saves a lot to time and future problems when compared to say sch 40 PVC and a coupling every 20'. You protect it from sharp edges the same as PVC. It is more forgiving if frozen too and you'll get much better flow out of PE than any other product. You would simply tee off for each 3/4" or 1" hydrant wherever you wanted one.
I'd also advise against a gate valve. A PVC ball valve is a much better choice, less expense and will work long after a gate valve will break or stick open/closed due to infrequent use.
I have no ideas for the end at the pond but I would probably just leave it open with a screen cover so birds etc. don't get in it.
Gary Slusser
I picture just having the open pipe sticking up and a 90 directing the stream to the tank, with a gate valve. Only problem is that it would be subject to freezing, but I don't know of a long neck frost-free setup for such a big faucet.
Any ideas? )</font>
Whatever your water source, it will have to be capable of all the water a 1.25" line can deliver with open discharge... that's a bunch of water and most wells may have a problem with the volume. I'd want an automatic control to shut off the pump if the source was inadequate. BTW, IIRC a 100' long 1" PE line can deliver 30+ gpm at 50 psi open discharge; as long as the pump/water source can deliver it.... which is an important consideration, especially if you're pumping form a well and it is being drawn down. That makes the pump have to work harder, so the right sized pump is a critical component to this project.
I suggest a 400' roll of 160 psi PE (polyethylene) tubing zig zagged in the trench to allow for contraction/expansion. It's inexpensive and saves a lot to time and future problems when compared to say sch 40 PVC and a coupling every 20'. You protect it from sharp edges the same as PVC. It is more forgiving if frozen too and you'll get much better flow out of PE than any other product. You would simply tee off for each 3/4" or 1" hydrant wherever you wanted one.
I'd also advise against a gate valve. A PVC ball valve is a much better choice, less expense and will work long after a gate valve will break or stick open/closed due to infrequent use.
I have no ideas for the end at the pond but I would probably just leave it open with a screen cover so birds etc. don't get in it.
Gary Slusser
8NTX
Gold Member
Alan, you might check into just hiring it out. When I did my 600 ft. electric run last year, I hired a sprinkler co. to come out and do the job. Took him all of an hour and a half, with a big diesel unit (but admittedly this is in soft sand). Wasn't even a rider. Cost me $250, and renting a smaller unit would have cost me almost as much for a half day. I've rented trenchers for sprinkler projects, drainage systems, and the like in the past, and had enough maintenance problems going through mud, chains breaking etc., to learn that it's just easier not to deal with the hassle.
Steve
Steve
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Gary, how large (diameter) can you get the PE pipe? We see very little of it out here.
chim
Elite Member
One caution on the black roll pipe - don't make the end connections until after the trench has been backfilled for an hour or so.
If the pipe is laying in the sun, it gets warm and "grows" a bit. I was talking to an excavator we had hired to do some work, and he told me he did a job where they dug the trench, dropped the pipe in, and made the connections. Then, after they backfilled, the pipe cooled (and shortened). It pulled the connections apart.............chim
If the pipe is laying in the sun, it gets warm and "grows" a bit. I was talking to an excavator we had hired to do some work, and he told me he did a job where they dug the trench, dropped the pipe in, and made the connections. Then, after they backfilled, the pipe cooled (and shortened). It pulled the connections apart.............chim
Highbeam
Super Member
"The source is inch and a quarter coming out of my pressure tank, so it wouldn't seem to make sense going bigger than that, or would it?"
It absolutely makes sense to upsize the long run. It is not about diameter but head loss. There is a lot of friction in a long run of pipe and since losses due to friction increase with velecity a loarger pipe with slower moving water flows better. At the end of the run you will have more flow with a larger pipe. I would advise no less than 2" for even a run of several hundred feet. I also advise using the PE roll though the PVC, if installed correctly, is a very suitable pipe.
The PE pipe is commonly available in rolls up to 2" diameter. Then it is also available through water companies, called HDPE, as big as you want. You can imagine the roll becomes impossible as the diameter gets bigger and then the pipe is sold in lengths to be welded together with a machine. We use the larger HDPE for water mains, sewer force mains, and even storm lines since it is very tough and well suited to directional drilling.
It absolutely makes sense to upsize the long run. It is not about diameter but head loss. There is a lot of friction in a long run of pipe and since losses due to friction increase with velecity a loarger pipe with slower moving water flows better. At the end of the run you will have more flow with a larger pipe. I would advise no less than 2" for even a run of several hundred feet. I also advise using the PE roll though the PVC, if installed correctly, is a very suitable pipe.
The PE pipe is commonly available in rolls up to 2" diameter. Then it is also available through water companies, called HDPE, as big as you want. You can imagine the roll becomes impossible as the diameter gets bigger and then the pipe is sold in lengths to be welded together with a machine. We use the larger HDPE for water mains, sewer force mains, and even storm lines since it is very tough and well suited to directional drilling.