Hey all- I've "inherited" a 51 Super C, it's my first tractor. It was driven to the spot it's parked at 5 years ago, and to little surprised the engine's now seized/rusted. I'm currently soaking the cylinders w/ rust buster & diesel fuel, and I've tried to turn it over by hand w/ a pipe wrench on the pto. Any other thoughts before I start taking the engine apart? I'm going to let the the cylinders soak through this week, then jump back into it. Any input is appreciated!
Seized/Rusted engine 51 Farmall Super C
- Thread starter Schroby
- Start date
PILOON
Super Star Member
I know that one process often used to free up stuck pistons is to remouve the head, and using a wood 'plug' (roughly piston sized) rap each piston solidly with a heavy hammer.
Wood being softer than the piston will not damage it.
Trick would be to rap progressivly each piston one blow at a time until the break free.
The first step is (as you are doing) to soak then the hammer/wood routine.
Either way since piston rings are jammed the head needs remouval.
If you are lucky enough you are facing , basically, a 'ring job' and maybe not more than that.
But while into it you'd want to verify bearings and probably 'lap' the valves.
On the other hand, if the engine was 'real tight' before the rings rusted up I've known engines to free up and run on for many hours. Once running the rings would re-seat themselves. But if well worn the tolerances could allow blowby and exessive oil consumption.
however I'd say this would be an iffy 'toss of the dice'
Good luck!
Wood being softer than the piston will not damage it.
Trick would be to rap progressivly each piston one blow at a time until the break free.
The first step is (as you are doing) to soak then the hammer/wood routine.
Either way since piston rings are jammed the head needs remouval.
If you are lucky enough you are facing , basically, a 'ring job' and maybe not more than that.
But while into it you'd want to verify bearings and probably 'lap' the valves.
On the other hand, if the engine was 'real tight' before the rings rusted up I've known engines to free up and run on for many hours. Once running the rings would re-seat themselves. But if well worn the tolerances could allow blowby and exessive oil consumption.
however I'd say this would be an iffy 'toss of the dice'
Good luck!
PILOON
Super Star Member
Is the Farmall a gaz engine?
One thought that comes to mind would be compressed air via a spark plug hole and a suitable adapter.
(Smash out spark plug porcelin and weld on an air hose adaptor)
Maybe only one cylinder is stuck.
Might be worth a try.
One thought that comes to mind would be compressed air via a spark plug hole and a suitable adapter.
(Smash out spark plug porcelin and weld on an air hose adaptor)
Maybe only one cylinder is stuck.
Might be worth a try.
bncsauve
Silver Member
I'm not familiar with the mechanics of your tractor, but I would think that you would not be putting much torque on the crankshaft by turning the pto. They are usually geared down about 5 to 1. Instead, how about turning the fly wheel or even crankshaft pulley? The wood plug on the piston is a good suggestion.
billbill1
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2004
- Messages
- 1,180
- Location
- Lecompton, Kansas
- Tractor
- 2016 Mahindra 1533 Shuttle AgKing 2840 shuttle shift
I've seen my Dad take off the oil pan, and use a bottle jack to apply pressure on the crankshaft by jacking up on rod bearings. He would soak the cylinders with diesel fuel and the engine would break free under it's own weight. Once they break loose he could always get them running.
Spiffy
Veteran Member
Having the rings cooperate is iffy. But I'd say worth not taking the head. Unless he gets aggressive and cracks the rings so running would scratch the cylinder walls, there's little to harm trying to get lucky. May want to pull that valve cover and make sure all the valves are loose; no point in bending a valve or rocker on start-up.
I too like compressed air spark plug adaptors [it's pretty easy to hollow out a plug and braze an air fitting]. Of course, then it will be one with an open valve that is seized! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But can't hurt to try.
Time is your friend if you have it; keep the cylinders full of diesel, and tap lightly [don't beat on it] each direction on that pipe wrech every few days for a while; then try all your weight [gradually applied - not behind a hammer! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif]. The PTO is probably a 2 or 3 torque disadvange [might be wise to have an adaptor or something on there also, to avoid burring the shaft], but not all bad. Finally, I've never done it, but always thought it would make sense to put a tube on a shop-va, suck out your first fill of solvent to get rid of any moisture, then refill.
Have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I too like compressed air spark plug adaptors [it's pretty easy to hollow out a plug and braze an air fitting]. Of course, then it will be one with an open valve that is seized! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But can't hurt to try.
Time is your friend if you have it; keep the cylinders full of diesel, and tap lightly [don't beat on it] each direction on that pipe wrech every few days for a while; then try all your weight [gradually applied - not behind a hammer! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif]. The PTO is probably a 2 or 3 torque disadvange [might be wise to have an adaptor or something on there also, to avoid burring the shaft], but not all bad. Finally, I've never done it, but always thought it would make sense to put a tube on a shop-va, suck out your first fill of solvent to get rid of any moisture, then refill.
Have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Spiffy
Veteran Member
Somehow got thinking, if you have the valve cover off, could just as well pull the rocker assemblies. That way, barring stuck vavles [which need to be fixed anyway] you wounld't have any open valves to interfere with pressuriizing [if you decide to try that method] the cylinders.
Oh, be sure to change the oil and filter before starting it. And again after an hour [running time, doesn't need to be continuous, but should get to operating temp at least once] too.
Oh, be sure to change the oil and filter before starting it. And again after an hour [running time, doesn't need to be continuous, but should get to operating temp at least once] too.
turnkey4099
Elite Member
Lots of good suggestions.
My brother resurrected a Farmall Cub that had been sitting a lot longer than that. He used the 'remove head and rap on piston' method along with soaking with rust buster type stuff. He was a professional mechanic so.
His method was to keep the rust buster going and give each piston a rap with a hammer using the handle end. No, not a heavy hammer You don't want to manhandle this job. A few medium taps each day will do it. Do not tackle is as a "I'm going to get this thing freed up in the next hour" job. It is a job that calls for finesse and patience, not brute force.
Harry K
My brother resurrected a Farmall Cub that had been sitting a lot longer than that. He used the 'remove head and rap on piston' method along with soaking with rust buster type stuff. He was a professional mechanic so.
His method was to keep the rust buster going and give each piston a rap with a hammer using the handle end. No, not a heavy hammer You don't want to manhandle this job. A few medium taps each day will do it. Do not tackle is as a "I'm going to get this thing freed up in the next hour" job. It is a job that calls for finesse and patience, not brute force.
Harry K
BobG_in_VA
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 2,002
- Location
- Central VA, USA
- Tractor
- Mahindra 6000 MWFD, 2 1950's Farmalls, 1974 Farmall 140, 1967 Mf 135Delux
All the previous posts are postiive. Mine will be as well. I've got a "few" Farmalls with the C-123 engine (Super C engine). couple of things--Was the exhaust covered while it was sitting (either weather cap or can). Pull all the plugs (I'm sure you have as you already have the "stuff" in there). Was there any water sitting on top of the pistons?? OK, here goes:
Assuming you didn't get rain down the exhaust and fill up the manifold, you should take compressed air and blow out all the 'stuff' you have in their now. I've found the best thing to unseize an engine is Automatic transmission fluid!! It will seep in some strange places and lubes as it goes. Now, here's how you see if you can move the pistons. Jack up the right rear axel till its off the ground. Put the tractor in 4th gear (top gear). Rock the right rear wheel (for those of you not familiar with old Farmall's this is a 36 inch rim plus tire, you can get some good torque here) back and forth. If it doesn't want to move don't force it. Leave the ATF in the cyl. You should be able to move it "some" within a week or so. If you do keep it up till you can rotate the tire completely around. Please drain the oil before you do anything. I wouldn't change the filter yet as it is a cartridge type. Can anyone tell you why they Parked it?? Anyway, go to "ytmag.com" (Google Yesterdays Tractors"). They have a great set of forums and one of them is for Farmalls. All the infor you can digest in the next 2 years is there. Good luck and let us know how it goes! BobG in VA
Assuming you didn't get rain down the exhaust and fill up the manifold, you should take compressed air and blow out all the 'stuff' you have in their now. I've found the best thing to unseize an engine is Automatic transmission fluid!! It will seep in some strange places and lubes as it goes. Now, here's how you see if you can move the pistons. Jack up the right rear axel till its off the ground. Put the tractor in 4th gear (top gear). Rock the right rear wheel (for those of you not familiar with old Farmall's this is a 36 inch rim plus tire, you can get some good torque here) back and forth. If it doesn't want to move don't force it. Leave the ATF in the cyl. You should be able to move it "some" within a week or so. If you do keep it up till you can rotate the tire completely around. Please drain the oil before you do anything. I wouldn't change the filter yet as it is a cartridge type. Can anyone tell you why they Parked it?? Anyway, go to "ytmag.com" (Google Yesterdays Tractors"). They have a great set of forums and one of them is for Farmalls. All the infor you can digest in the next 2 years is there. Good luck and let us know how it goes! BobG in VA
SimS
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2000
- Messages
- 491
- Location
- Rutledge, GA
- Tractor
- Kubota L3710DT, Case 1845C, Takeuchi TB015
Spiffy;
Were you suggesting to vacuum flammable liquids with a Shop Vac? That might be a reciepe for disater. Other than that, all good ideas so far. Time and patience generally will work.
SimS
Were you suggesting to vacuum flammable liquids with a Shop Vac? That might be a reciepe for disater. Other than that, all good ideas so far. Time and patience generally will work.
SimS