Single Lid CUT Wicked Grapple..If your compact tractor could talk....

[EverythingAttachments]

you're saying the 491 isn't an option?:laughing:

hehe :thumbsdown:

 

[TSO]

I think IslandTractor described it best above. The user would be the #1 factor but we can't really rate them like that.
His light duty grapple serves him well, but I think he could damage it if he didn't exercise caution.
He knows what his tractor is capable of but, unfortunately, many users are not aware. This is why we must be careful in our recommendations.
The concern isn't really the lift capacity and pushing straight on, it's pushing/prying from the side that could cause damage.
The pushing/prying force is greater on larger compact tractors above 35hp because they're heavier and have more traction.
To cover ourselves, we wouldn't recommend the lighter grapple for tractors over that but the decision is ultimately up to the customer.
I'll talk to Ted about lift cap. rating vs. hp rating.

Like anyone in the business, we want to sell product, but the last thing we want is to have problems by over rating our products.
If we are honest from the start, hopefully things will not come back to haunt us in the future.

So bottom line, if I use it on my 47 hp tractor, do I void the warranty for structural integrity ?

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Yes, since that tractor is larger than recommended, it would not be the grapple's fault if damage occurred.

 

[IslandTractor]

The concern isn't really the lift capacity and pushing straight on, it's pushing/prying from the side that could cause damage.
The pushing/prying force is greater on larger compact tractors above 35hp because they're heavier and have more traction.
.

I agree that lateral or off center forces are what is most likely to damage grapples. While I understand manufacturers perfectly reasonable concerns about wanting to avoid limiting damage their products so as to protect their reputations, I think it would make more sense to publish clear guidelines on how to use a grapple safely rather than put a relatively arbitrary horsepower rating on the grapples. I assure you that I could destroy the EA 54" grapple using Ted's own CT225 in about fifteen minutes by doing things the grapple was never engineered or built to do. Similarly, I could use an identical EA 54" grapple on a 100hp tractor and make it last a lifetime. The issue is not really the horsepower it is the dolt in the operator seat that is most dangerous to the grapple. Overbuilding or underrating grapples only goes so far to avoid damage and is inherently inefficient. Educating the operator and making the purchaser aware of the proper and improper techniques for grapple (or other implement use) would make a lot more sense. CUT owners are usually not highly experienced equipment operators and may make naive mistakes. Those types of naive errors could be fairly easily avoided with education but there are currently virtually zero educational resources available on use of grapples. Abuse or careless use of a grapple is a somewhat different matter and would certainly be of significant concern in a rental or commercial environment but for a homeowner/private property owner driving his well maintained CUT, that type of issue is secondary.

Here are a few ideas Ted could consider doing would help remove or broaden the HP requirements:

1) Develop and post a video on use and abuse of the grapple. Nobody is born with an understanding of how to operate a grapple. It seems easy and for the most part it is but there are do's and don'ts that one needs to learn either by trial and error or by instruction. You guys post mostly sales videos or how to videos that tend to focus only on proper technique. Demonstrating improper technique as a "don't do this" type of teaching tool would be very helpful so owners don't need to make all of their own mistakes. Individuals learning on their own really need to see both the proper and improper techniques demonstrated and discussed to have a basis for good operator practice.

2) Sell the light duty versions as "non commercial use only" and explain clearly that these are not exactly delicate tools but that improper use can damage them. Refer to the video for instruction. Make clear in the warranty description that certain types of damage, clearly related to operator error/abuse will not be covered. Twisting damage in particular is virtually always due to operator error or abuse.

3) Sell a slightly upgraded version of the single lid 54" grapple using 3/8 inch steel which could be recommended for the 35-50hp range. That would cover virtually every true CUT out there and would also be fine for things like the Toolcat or small skidsteers. It might weigh 75lbs more than the 1/4 inch version but that 75lbs is a non issue for loaders on tractors above 35HP in size.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Your logic is spot-on and the instruction video is something to consider.
It's not really possible to make a grapple as light as our 50", which is perfect for a small compact/subcompact tractor, that will stand up to what a large compact tractor is capable of dishing out.
The key word being "capable" which can be regulated by the user.
We can talk about it all day, but the only way we can regulate it is to not recommend it for tractors larger than 35hp and leave the rest up to the customer.

Ted does plan to make a heavier grapple for larger tractors and skid steers soon.

Peanut, Ted and the gang are out making a video of the 50" grapple right now. I'm sure the video will explain much more than I can by just talking about it.

 

[IslandTractor]

Your logic is spot-on and the instruction video is something to consider.
It's not really possible to make a grapple as light as our 50", which is perfect for a small compact/subcompact tractor, that will stand up to what a large compact tractor is capable of dishing out.
The key word being "capable" which can be regulated by the user.
We can talk about it all day, but the only way we can regulate it is to not recommend it for tractors larger than 35hp and leave the rest up to the customer.

Ted does plan to make a heavier grapple for larger tractors and skid steers soon.

Peanut, Ted and the gang are out making a video of the 50" grapple right now. I'm sure the video will explain much more than I can by just talking about it.

Sounds great. Please make sure they address the key "off center" issues with grapples in their video.

 

[TSO]

Your logic is spot-on and the instruction video is something to consider.
It's not really possible to make a grapple as light as our 50", which is perfect for a small compact/subcompact tractor, that will stand up to what a large compact tractor is capable of dishing out.
The key word being "capable" which can be regulated by the user.
We can talk about it all day, but the only way we can regulate it is to not recommend it for tractors larger than 35hp and leave the rest up to the customer.

Ted does plan to make a heavier grapple for larger tractors and skid steers soon.

Peanut, Ted and the gang are out making a video of the 50" grapple right now. I'm sure the video will explain much more than I can by just talking about it.

I still think that using a horsepower rating is an arbitrary number... Consider the grand L Series from Kubota. The L3240(34hp) and L3540(37hp) can both be equipped with either the LA524 OR LA724 loader, which differ quite a bit in lift & curl strength, but you're only talking about a 3 HP difference, which in that case really only applies for PTO. The LA724 can also be equipped on the L3940(40.5hp).

I think that the differences in horsepower have nothing to do with the grapple operation and limitations for strength, compared to the individual loader strength of each tractor. Especially when you consider that each manufacturer has different strengths loaders for the different HP classes of tractors.

It would seem to make more sense to categorize your grapples by the individual loader strengths of each tractor. 2000 pounds seems to be a good cut off.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

The guys just got in from shooting the video. Ted said he done some things that you should and shouldn't do with the grapple and also talked about the topics we've been discussing.
I'll post it after it's edited, probably tomorrow. I'm anxious to see it in action!

 

[PSDStu]

Welp, looks like we get to find out if I'm a moron.:thumbsup:



Thanks Travis and Ted! Grapple has been ordered. I'll let everyone know how it goes.:drink:

What are you going to use to operate your grapple?

Do you have the Kubota 3rd function kit?

Stu

 

[johnnyvol]

What are you going to use to operate your grapple?

Do you have the Kubota 3rd function kit?
Stu

I'm going to run it on the L4060 to start and go gentle for a bit. As my reply to Island Tractor implies, I might be the moron to break one. :confused3:

I'm having the dealer install the third function when they do the 50 hour service.