skidding on black ice

   / skidding on black ice #1  
daugen

daugen

Super Star Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
19,228
Location
New Hope PA
Tractor
in between now
How do I recover from a black ice skid in a front-wheel, rear-wheel or all-wheel drive car? | Erie Insurance

useful article from Erie Insurance, mostly same old but the front wheel drive
part was interesting to me. No power, no brakes. Not an intuitive response.

and the part about pushing in the clutch of a manual trans.
a few good tidbits.

scary stuff when your steering wheel feels like it fell off the shaft from how little feedback you are getting back...
As a not proud member of the 360 ciub, did it ages ago(age 22?) in an old Porsche 356SC, boy that tail liked to come out, but at
at least I did it in slush, not stupid driving on dry pavement. And when those old VW's let go, they really let go...
I know, I know, why didn't I keep that car I bought for $1700 and sold for $1500...after it broke down, again, and left me stranded in dense traffic,
and a big bill to pay by the German car surgeon. 6 foot long wire clutch cables. It had to go, I was young and poor and it sure wasn't the car for me. But when the big boss mentions that his son in law really needed to sell his Porsche, well...what a sucker I was. Hey, learning experience. Gorgeous off white bathtub coupe.

Back to the story, which is relevant because most of us drive a vehicle with sophisticated ABS and likely a whole lot more defensive nanny devices.
Like the ones that brake one rear tire or the other to compensate for a skid. It thinks while you are still trying to think.

we get very little practice in this, which is good and bad. But after this winter, yikes, I bet all our car insurance rates are going to go up a little.

There are so many videos on YouTube of folks loosing control and spinning out on the interstate, to awful consequences.
Let's do our best not to be one. Good Luck for sure.

and if we could only avoid those spinning out and headed right at us...:shocked:
 
   / skidding on black ice #2  
 
   / skidding on black ice #3  
Anit-lock brakes SUCK on snow and ice. They actually INCREASE your stopping distance on these surfaces.

If you find yourself sliiding on snow or ice, PUMP your brake pedal rapidly (even with anti-locks). This will allow you to defeat the anti-lock computer, and let snmow build up in front of your tires and allow you to stop faster, and in a shorter distance.

I hate it when insurance companies don't tell the truth about anti-locks.
 
   / skidding on black ice
  • Thread Starter
#4  
I hate it when insurance companies don't tell the truth about anti-locks.[/QUOTE]

I follow you on snow, and going straight. Assuming a good driver who knows his/her vehicle's capability. Not sure your advice holds true on curves and sheet ice.
I drove firetrucks for six years in the winter...but we never got that much ice here. Often the township plow truck would go in front of the
first out engines plowing and sanding in front of us, if it was really bad out.

I just can't envision how pumping your brakes on glare ice is going to do anything good...
 
   / skidding on black ice #5  
It is impossible to have complete control if you unexpectedly hit black ice. Once a spin starts, you will likely become a victim of physics. When I was I drivers ed, there was no training for such a situation. Only warnings about what black ice is and when it occurs. Fortunately I had a friend who took me into a vacant parking lot with 2-3" of snow on it and taught me how to control a car when it goes I to a slide. .. Biggest lesson... Don't touch the breaks and don't panic. If anyone has the option to take a kid who is learning to drive, into the same type lot, I believe if is a great help.
 
   / skidding on black ice #6  
Black ice.......back off the throttle and steer straight. Don't bother trying to turn, don't try to slow down suddenly, just steer straight and drive. Know your vehicle, inside out and backwards. So well that you know what it will do IF you should get a little sideways, that way you will know exactly how to get straight again. It will be reflex action. Skid school is your friend.
!!DO NOT TOUCH YOUR BRAKES!!
 
   / skidding on black ice #7  
Looking4new said:
Black ice.......back off the throttle and steer straight. Don't bother trying to turn, don't try to slow down suddenly, just steer straight and drive. Know your vehicle, inside out and backwards. So well that you know what it will do IF you should get a little sideways, that way you will know exactly how to get straight again. It will be reflex action. Skid school is your friend.
!!DO NOT TOUCH YOUR BRAKES!!
Click to expand...
That's been my experience with black ice too. Dont touch the brakes! And it really does help if you know what your vehicle feels like, when skidding in different directions, including backwards, it's just hard to get the experience in a controlled/legal environment.
 
   / skidding on black ice #8  
The advise about pumping your brakes on an ABS vehicle is ridiculous. The ABS controller finds the best (lowest) wheel slip tolerance that your tires can develop. Every time you 'pump' your brake pedal you disengage the ABS controller and braking action has to start all over, ABS or not. Tests. that you can run yourself show ABS stops more quickly that even a trained driver EVERY time: Dry, wet, snow, gravel and ice.

The key to maintaining control is to NOT change the state of the forces affecting the car: Don't drop the throttle (causes weight transfer off the back wheels, Hold the steering wheel tight (On ice, tires produce only a low, constant cornering force, not one proportional to steer angle), and look ahead to see where the problems occur before you have to act on it. Use full brake pressure to engage the ABS asap. It will try to help you through the spin. Once its engaged, a LITTLE steering can be attempted, but don't thrash it around. Tires don't like sudden changes in steering.

The use of real SNOW and ICE tires (I use Bridgestone Blizzaks on all my vehicles) is a great safety advantage. The problem will ne that he vehicle behind you can not be able to stop or steer as well as you can.

Pumping the brake pedal is only an option if you blow through a master cylinder seal or burst a brake line. The you need to learn how to apply the 'parking' brake without spinning the vehicle. Once you lock up the rears, you will spin out and certainly crash.

Think you know better than this? Go practice in a parking lot or out on a lake with some cones.
 
   / skidding on black ice #9  
Once you get past the 45 degree mark from the straight ahead direction you were traveling in, it is almost impossible to correct and you might as well try to head for a soft spot to land. A snow bank works good for this.

I started to lose my Jeep on the 4 lane highway, the road surface looked good (it wasn't). Traffic was traveling at 70 mph. Me too. The paved shoulder had snow on it. The Jeep had just started to kick out sideways to the right, the traffic around me saw this and slowed down, I backed off the throttle a little and steered to the right to correct the skid and when it started to come back to straight I headed for the paved shoulder to get some traction on the snow. Ran down the paved shoulder for about 1/4 mile all the time slowing down just a little from 70 to about 50, reached down and cracked it into 4wd and accelerated (with a Jeep Wrangler TJ you can do this no harm no foul). Traffic and I resumed our traveling I stayed at 60 for the rest of the trip.

The shorter the wheelbase, the faster they will spin out. The longer the wheelbase the harder it is to be able to recognize when you are just going into a skid.
 
   / skidding on black ice #10  
I agree, 99.9% of the time the ABS will do better in ANY condition.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
 

Footer Links 1

Top