Solar Power

   / Solar Power #21  
I just read about that flying machine, but I can't remember the name of it either /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif. Pretty impressive though. I do remember little tidbits about it: Flying altitude 100,000' (highest flying prop-driven anything). Ten electric engines. Wingspan 245'.

The GlueGuy
 
   / Solar Power #22  
   / Solar Power #24  
Sorry but I fail to understand the logic of having to consume more and more to make it look like your conserving power by adding solar. The balance needs to be tipped in favor of solar by reducing cost of solar not consuming so wildly that solar becomes cost effective. Am I missing something? Isn't this like recommending driving like a total maniac to make your insurance more cost effective (my appology to any BMW pilolting yuppie larva with a friend having the patience to explain this put down)?

Lowering consumption would save money for you directly without a large investment, a real quick payback, often in under three years even using net present value calculations to get at the true cost of the investment. The power you didn't use would still be available for others to help gratify your alltruistic needs, feel PC, green, whatever.

I'm not anti solar or cold fusion or anti anyway to get energy for a better life without destroying the planet or robbing our fellow inhabitants, but remain convinced that in many/most on-grid instances it just doesn't pay unless your currency is in feeling green, PC, and or probably fooling yourself. Sure wish it weren't so, really truly I do.

Even gorilla installations (illegal grid intertie, irrespective of quality of engineering or following code are often marginal at best). You can however, on a clear day, if you turn everything you own off and unplug all the parasitic phantom loads like VCR's, TV's, Microwaves, etc that use power when "OFF", actually see your Watt Hour meter spin backwards! Whoopee! What is that worth to you?

Patrick, headed to closet to put on kevlar-nomex underwear.
 
   / Solar Power #25  
You missunderstand me if you think I was telling people to consume more to make it look like solar was cost effective. Of course not using it in the first place is probably the best choice. We have been doing a lot of that at our house, but we are at the point of diminishing returns.

In fact, I was running more numbers today, and it is cost effective today at the lowest usage price we can get here (11 cents a KWH). Timeline is kinda long, but it is still within the warranty period of the solar cells. We actually use relatively little electricity already (compared to almost everyone I know), but we still have our usage above the baseline rate, and are paying almost 14 cents a KWH for those premium KWHs.

What I was trying to say was that if for some reason, you can't get your usage down, the payback time comes a lot quicker. Our next door neighbor is an excellent example of someone that is genetically predisposed to consume too much electricity.

The GlueGuy
 
   / Solar Power #26  
Glueguy,

From what I've read about solar, the cells usually outlast the warranty period by a long time. If they're going to go bad, it's going to be relatively soon after installation and use. Batteries are the big problem. They must be monitored, fussed with and kept balanced. You're sitting on a mountain top, any chance of wind power? Still have the batteries, but a windchanger is usually less expensive that a similar solar system.

Still, from where I'm setting, the only reason for me to put in my own power system would be to free myself of the grid. If the cost for a system to power my digs is $20,000.00 and my average monthly bill is $50.00, I'm not sure I'd be alive to see the payoff. Even with my own system, I would still have power outages, (blown batteries, repairs, etc.) although they would hopefully be PLANNED outages /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

SHF
 
   / Solar Power #27  
I'm not intending to install batteries at all. Too expensive to buy, too expensive to maintain, and too much maintenance.

Much cheaper and simpler to just install a grid-tie system. Have to have an inverter anyway, and the additional expense to make a computerized inverter into a grid-tie is almost inconsequential.

We have looked at wind power too. The advantage for us would be that it would produce most of its power when the solar is down. The best wind time for us is also in the winter. Only down side is that it would be higher maintenance than the solar system.

Who knows? I might do one of each. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

The GlueGuy
 
   / Solar Power #28  
GlueGuy,

Have you checked with the Utility to find out the requirements for the grid intertie? Out your way, they're desperate enough they may let you hook in just about anything. Here, I've heard (but haven't investigated to actually find out), that the utilities want a pretty good sized bond put up in case the grid intertie system lights up a lineman. (ie, General power outage, but your system is still running and pumping juice into the local grid, unlucky lineman--ZAP--/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif).

One of these days I'm going to have to check on it to find out exactly what the requirements are. I DO know there are a lot of illegal systems that have been installed and grid intertied, so, I am assuming the requirements for connection are not just in place here.

SHF
 
   / Solar Power #29  
The grid-tie systems are pretty standard now. The local utility requires that they meet a specific standard as far as safety disconnects go. Also needs to be signed off by a licensed electrician. It's no big deal in that regard. Oh, no bonds required.

The GlueGuy
 
   / Solar Power #30  
Been a lot of changes in the electricity market. Heard on the news this morning that they are warning of rolling blackouts somewhere out east now. What the Solar industry really needs is a larger market. Bigger market, more consumers; more consumers more R&D; more R&D, lower prices and better output. The systems have been improving, but very slowly. They are still more stable that windchargers, which, (you are correct) require a much higher maintenance and repair schedule. I also wonder what would happen if one of those blades came off in a high wind? Could get messy. There's some little ones 300-600 watts that look pretty good and are pretty cheap. But the heart of the machines is still little more than an alternator.

SHF
 
 
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