Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions!

   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #11  
Best Advice: And it is Free. :laughing: Do your thing, grow and sell what ever you want. Keep the gov. out of it, end of worries. It is legal to have a "Hobby Business" and unless you make a LOT of money nothing has to be said.

Have Fun
Jim Crash325 :thumbsup:

How much money are talking about making. You have to claim $10,001+. I can't remember where the tax brackets start. I believe its somewhere around there.
I don't know where this 3 out of 5 yrs profit comes from. You can't show a profit if you didn't make it. If your a farmer and that's your sole income. Meaning yoy don't have another job and you have 5 yrs in a row of lost it sure will be a good try for the irs knock you back to a "hobby farmer"
I'm a "hobby farmer". Funny thing is I do more for my than anything else. I raise cattle and goats. 1st thing in the morning I feed em and. Look em over. I haul the feed and hay, make myself avaible if an animal needs help giving birth, check the calves and kids out. Matter of fact if I'm not at the grain elevator this all I do.the last 5 yrs I grossed $25000-$30000.after my expences I neted $15000-$18000. Not a bad hobby huh? A tax credit or return is not a reason to get into this.
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #12  
In Arkansas you have to register and get a farm number in order to qualify for farm status. This requires a minimum of 10 acres. With this number you can get certain farm items free of sales tax, although this seems to vary with different businesses as to what qualifies as farm items. IRS tax wise, I am not sure how or what they qualify as farms. I do know that when you start up a new farm, you have 5 years to show a profit. My brother in law started raising cattle a couple years ago and that is what his accountant told him. You could deduct the full cost of equipment in one year, but I think that ended last year, now you have to amortize it over an expected lifetime but you still get to deduct if from your profits. The IRS has really cracked down on "hobby farming" which it determines those that are just trying to use it as a write off for tax purposes. As I understand it, hobby farms arent allowed to deduct any of their expenses any longer as they are classified as just that, a hobby just like golfing or mud bogging, tractor pulling etc. I dont claim to know a lot about taxes and most of this is word of mouth, so check with your accountant. The only thing I am sure of is the size of farm because I just registered mine but I dont claim any expense on my taxes for it as yet. Just getting ready for my retirement at this point.
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #13  
Not sure where you live. Here in CA, when I looked into getting AG permits for outbuildings, you have to have a min of 20 acres. Not sure if that carries over to actual farming though.

I think the suggestions to a "farm" familiar CPA is going to be worth every penny. Write offs are not what they used to be for ANY business, not anymore. The IRS pretty much closed off many home business "loopholes". Usually any equipment you write off, they look at real close when it's sold. They feel they have a right to any money you make or "save" based on a write off.

Out here, between the feds and the morons at state level, it's a miracle ANY businesses survive.
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions!
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Thanks for the all the info guys! Very intresting.

I live in Kentucky just for reference.

The suggestion to talk with a CPA is a good one. And maybe the local extension agent.

My intrest is to make some spending money. I work full time but would like to have some extra cash and the enjoyment of raising a "cash crop". As some have mentioned it maybe better to leave the IRS out of it. I wouldn't make a tremendous amount of money. I'd be lucky if it was a thousand dollars.... of course even that has to be posted on the 'ol tax return. Nothing is ever simple is it?!
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #15  
IMO, hobby farm = money pit.
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #16  
Lots of varying answers so it definitely depends on state and town. For farming we only need show $2500 in income from the product of choice. This can be inclusive of paid board for horses. We have 48 acres and get a tax break on 43 acres, the first 5 including the house and barn are taxed at the normal residential rate for our town.
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #17  
Thanks for the all the info guys! Very intresting.

I live in Kentucky just for reference.

The suggestion to talk with a CPA is a good one. And maybe the local extension agent.

My intrest is to make some spending money. I work full time but would like to have some extra cash and the enjoyment of raising a "cash crop". As some have mentioned it maybe better to leave the IRS out of it. I wouldn't make a tremendous amount of money. I'd be lucky if it was a thousand dollars.... of course even that has to be posted on the 'ol tax return. Nothing is ever simple is it?!

Lot of info here, some of it is not accurate.

1. You have to declare all income on your fed income taxes. Regardless of where how you earn it. Whether you choose to obey that legal requirement is a personal decision--if you get audited and it's discovered, expect to pay back taxes, interest, and penalties. Plus a possibility of criminal action if they decide you deliberately and knowingly failed to declare income.

2. You can offset any income you have from expenses incurred to create that income. So if you have $100 from farm income and $75 in DIRECT expenses to generate that income, you only have a profit of $25. If you have $100 in farm income and $125 in DIRECT expenses to generate it, you have a loss of $25.

3. What the IRS is concerned about is, basically, using an unprofitable business to generate paper losses that offset income from other sources. In other words, suppose you have ordinary income from your job of $1000. But you can show a loss on your farm operations of $600. This can lower your overall taxable income from your job to $400. People used to do this all the time until they tightened up the tax code.

4. No business is ever required to be profitable by the IRS. What they care about is taxable income. They can disallow deductions based on a lack of taxable income by deciding your business isn't a REAL business, but just a hobby. The costs of having a hobby aren't deductible. If you consistently run at a loss year after year and use that loss to offset other taxable income, be prepared to hear from the gov't at some point This is basically the loophole they are trying to close.

5. Your business is a sole proprietorship unless you set it up differently. There are potentially issues with a SP; you should consider setting up a corporation to encapsulate your farm business activities. You can create a S Corp or an LLC; the tax returns on an LLC are much cheaper to do annually than on an S Corp. It's quite inexpensive to get these set up using one of the online services out there. Having a corporation shields your personal assets from any liability associated with the business. This is VERY important

6. You should get a local CPA who KNOWS small farm business issues to help you set up your business. This way you can transfer any assets (like equipment) into the ownership of the farm for taxable purposes. The biggest problem a lot of small business owners get into from an accounting/legal point of view is mingling their "personal" world with their "business" world. Among other problems, that's a condition that can quickly get the IRS to declare your business a hobby, not a business. Once they make that declaration, you're toast.

7. To avoid these problems, treat your business like a business. give it a name, it gets a master business license from the state, it pays taxes, it has its own bank account, keep careful records of all activities, etc. One of the standards IRS has for status determination is the duck theory: if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck. If it looks like a business, quacks like a business, it probably is a business. Again, even if you have a corporation but you don't clearly separate it from your personal life, you can lose the shield of protection the corporation offers you. Likewise I believe if you act in a fraudulent manner inside the business you can lose the shield.

hope this helps
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions!
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Johnbro.... Outstanding reply! Thank you for the detail and concise information. Makes good sense.
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #19  
What Johnbro said in his last line is VERY important. If you want the shield of the LLC make certain that they cannot easily show co-mingling of financial resources. Many, folks feel they are absolutely protected and their bubble gets burst by a good lawyer.

I was taking a quickbook's class with a bunch of contractors, and that was one of the first point's made. It was funny as the instructor said how many are LLC's? Lots of Hands, how many feel that shields your personal assets from liability? All hands stayed up, How many bought something business wise on a personal credit card etc for the business and how many have bought personal stuff with company finances. Almost everybody (I think there were 2 that knew where it was going) then he explained and called a break.

It was almost hilarious to see the folks run out of the room and start making calls.

Papa, Ky is pretty farm friendly, and easy to do (even if it is a commonwealth) I am just across the KY line in TN (Clarksville) if you are close. Everyone has to play what they feel comfortable with but it will cost you time and money to get everything set and running as a business, make sure it is worth the hassle before starting down that road.
 
   / Starting a hobby farm. Questions Questions! #20  
What Johnbro said in his last line is VERY important. If you want the shield of the LLC make certain that they cannot easily show co-mingling of financial resources. Many, folks feel they are absolutely protected and their bubble gets burst by a good lawyer.

I was taking a quickbook's class with a bunch of contractors, and that was one of the first point's made. It was funny as the instructor said how many are LLC's? Lots of Hands, how many feel that shields your personal assets from liability? All hands stayed up, How many bought something business wise on a personal credit card etc for the business and how many have bought personal stuff with company finances. Almost everybody (I think there were 2 that knew where it was going) then he explained and called a break.

It was almost hilarious to see the folks run out of the room and start making calls.

Papa, Ky is pretty farm friendly, and easy to do (even if it is a commonwealth) I am just across the KY line in TN (Clarksville) if you are close. Everyone has to play what they feel comfortable with but it will cost you time and money to get everything set and running as a business, make sure it is worth the hassle before starting down that road.

If you DO buy something for the business with a personal check or credit card, you have to have the business reimburse your personal account and keep a paper trail for this. It's not hard, in QB you do a journal entry. It's like submitting an expense account to an employer. If you buy something personal with business bucks, you have to sell it to yourself for what you paid for it,. And for God's sake don't use a resell cert to avoid paying sales tax for anything you're not reselling to someone else. That will land your butt in the lockup faster than you can say jack...

Clarksville, eh? I grew up in Clarksville, Dad worked at Ft. Campbell. We had 83 acres and an antebellum house off Highway 12, I think it's a subdivision now :(
 
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