Strangest Rattle

[MrFixit]

Since new my KAMA 354C would on occasion be hard to put into gear (any gear, forward revers, hi/Lo ...) The gears would grind as if clutch was not fully disengaging. This only happened on occasion and when it would happen I would notice a rattling sound as soon as I pressed the clutch in. If I heard the Rattle, I knew the gears would grind while trying to put it into gear. Further pressing of clutch pedal to disengage PTO stops the rattle and gears shift smoothly.


The rattling is not the typical Automotive Clutch Squeal of a Thrust Bearing (Throw-Out). It's more the sound of a shaft spinning without any load on it and it vibrates. I'm 80% deaf and can't rely on my ears anyway! The clutch pedal has about 1 inch play before it starts to activate pressure plate springs. The visible holes in Thrust bearing have been lubed but no further adjustments have been made or gaps checked.

Lately the rattle has happened more often and I even noticed it happen as I was sitting still, in gear with clutch depressed (First Stage) and shutting engine off. As the Engine slowed to a halt It seemed as if the rattle continued for about 1/4 to 1/2 second after engine completely stopped. I'm not 100% sure this actually happened but it sure sounded that way to my deaf ears.

Any ideas as to what may be causing this rattle and gear grinding would be appreciated as I sure don't want to damage anything by ignoring it any further.

 

[BTDT]

Do you have an inspection hole under tractor so you can see clutch, pressure plate, etc. Look for pieces, unusual amount of dust, clutch material, etc. Maybe clutch plate coming apart, pins, linkage on pressure plate...If you have inspection hole, can you have someone else operate clutch while you look. To better determine where sound is coming from, take a piece of dowel rod (cut off broom stick, screwdriver, etc.) and put one end to your ear and other end on gearbox housing, engine block, etc. May help to pinpoint noise. Good luck.

 

[thingy]

Well mr fix it,,you'd better figure this out and try and fix it before your clutch needs replacing,,,,,,,
Seriously though,,this double stage clutches take some getting used to and that might not be good enough,,there is a fine line between burning one clutch and leaving power on other,,and after 560 hours,I ain't got it figured out to the degree I'm sure is needed to not do damage,,you add loader work in that mix,,and it gets worse,,,,thingy

 

[MrFixit]

Yea, this 2 stage clutch is a bit of a mystery. Pressing pedal to disengage stage 1 and I hear a rattle as if something is still spinning. Further pressing and the Rattle goes away and gear shifts smoothly.

What could still be spinning that inhibits smooth shifting? The rattle will still happen if it's already in gear (Stopped with clutch depressed) so I know the tranny aint spinning.

If it was the Thrust bearing (Assuming there is only 1), why does the rattle go away when stage 2 is activated?

 

[thingy]

I know alotta times I am hogging and want to stop and change gears or back up with pto still running the whole time and sometimes I don't get first stage disengaged enough to shift gears with out a little grinding,,just go by feel and all,,and I really don't feel any difference with my foot,,just know if it don't want to shift need to push it in a little more,,you would think they would make these to where you could feel when you got the first one disengaged?,,,maybe you can adjust it so you can? mines been that way for 560 some hours now,,so,,must not be burning it up too bad? its never made a noise though,,,,thingy

 

[DieselPower]

It might be set up like the clutch's in heavy trucks with non-synchronized transmissions. They have a clutch brake. Basically a small friction disc between the throw out bearing and the face of the transmission. Since heavy truck transmissions are non synchronized they need to stop the headshaft from spinning when putting a truck in reverse or 1st gear. Pressing the pedal all the way down engages the throw out bearing with the clutch brake and stops the headshaft from spinning so the gears don't grind. In trucks when shifting from first to any other gear you do not need the clutch brake and shift using engine RPM to keep the gears from chashing. Maybe your tractor is set up in a similar way?

 

[greg_g]

Ain't no truck transmission, I don't even see any dog clutches. So I'm more inclined to initially suspect one of the clutch fingers has come away from the throwout bearing. A look through the inspection port can tell.

Mine doesn't have a compression release, so I have to be careful when I do this. Tranny in neutral, PTO disengaged, brakes set. If yours has a compression release, have someone hold it open while you're using a prybar to rotate the clutchpack one full revolution. If not, take care to rotate slowly so as not to cause compression ignition. When a clutch finger comes into view - there are three of them - it should be between 1mm and 2mm away from the throwout bearing. Any that are not, should be adjusted.

If they're all three good, then we'll have to dig a little deeper.

//greg//