the zerk that won't

[Soundguy]

Minor issues don't count, I agree...

But blind zerk ports... that's plain shoddy machining. No way to lipstick that pig..

Needing a starter right of fthe bat is a bit... annoying.. but at least it adhere's to common electric principles... that is.. HEF.... I'd think less about replacing a starter right off the bat, vs replacing one mid way thru life.

Early faileure is a common failure mode with electronics.. some of it is to be expected.

I don't think I'm being harsh.. nor do i expect JD quality on a 3900$ economy 20ish hp tractor. I do however expect grease ports and other lube ports to be drilled thru.. thus my comments.

Fit and finish are of negligible importance... "ugly' and runs is much more usefull than pretty, but not machined correctly...

A fitting/joint with some grease.. but not enough just shows a bit of neglect.. one that won't take grease due to a defect.. well.. that's just a tad bit pathetic... after all.. there were at least 2 chances, if not more, to find a problem at that joint.. one by the factory.. and one by the dealer....

I'm not going out of my way to lead a vigil against chinese tractors.. in the same shoe though.. you can't blanket defend shoody workmanship just based on country of origin.... sometimes a cigar is a cigar, so to speak. I see no problem with calling an issue on the mat when it's a real issue... I'd do the same for any other brand.. reguardless of manufacturer. in fact... any 'big' manufacturer.. I'd lambast even more.. as they are expected to have better qc, fit/finish. and pre/post checking.. as part of that price premium.. etc.

soundguy

SoundGuy,

I think you are being a little bit harsh. We the China tractor buyers know going in there are a few bugs to work out. When I got my tractor, I had to fill all the grease fittings. I did have a need to disassemble a grease area and there was some grease but certainly not full! I needed a starter and I'm sure a few more items will pop up as I zoom in on 80 hr after two years of ownership. I'm sure you are not in the camp of thinking a dealer will tweek these China tractors and out comes a Ford or JD. These are great tractors for the money. I could not have even considered buy a 45 hp Kabota. For what I paid for this KAMA, I'd have a nice Kabota lawn mower. I would not reccomend a China tractor to anyone with the highest of quality expectations.

I have been very happy with both my tractor and my dealer, Chip

 

[GuglioLS]

I actually have a Chinese tractor, I have found on my Jinma 354 that the Zerk fittings that will not take grease are not a defective Zerk or a blind / plugged hole. It's that the knuckle or ball joint is so well made it's air tight. There is no place for the grease to go. You might think I'm kidding but it's true!!. To prove it to yourself, take the cotter pin out the bottom of the knuckle, then loosen the slotted plug a few turns, then pump in some grease. If your a Chinese tractor owner, and are not happy with the Chinese tractor bashing that goes on here, please feel free to Join Us Here

Larry

 

[Soundguy]

I don't see the calm discussion of a flaw as bashing.... If people are going to stick their head in the sand about any kind of problem with chinese tractors.. uh.. then why have a discussion forum for them??

Looking in ALL the other subs, it seems quite common to discuss problem areas, and even complain or nitpick the manufacturer / dealer about it.

For instance... seems in the NH sub, fogged up instrument clusters was a big deal to quite a few owners for quite a long time... etc.

If you look at old/used/antique tractors.. you generally hear less about manufacture defects.. but more about previous owner abuse/lack of maintenance.. etc.

As far as a grease joint that wont take grease being described as 'well made'.. well then.. I question your engineering expertise. A jubrication joint should be designed to 'work'.. and whatever necescary clearances needed to make that joint work, should exist in that 'well made' joint. Thus.. a 'well made' joint would be one that was within design paramaters..and did allow the grease to flow. A unit that has no clearance, IMHO, is out of spec,and if it will not work as designed, cannot be seen as anything other than 'defective'.. but certainly not 'well made'. There is a big difference in low and no tolerance. Using your logic, that lower tolerance is better.. then a spark ignition engine that used a spark plug might not 'start if you reduced the spark plug gap to -0-.. It would however fit your definition of 'well made' though..... see the falacy here?

the lower micron spec of a filter media, the 'better' it filters. However.. you get to a point where you will have flow issues, or you will eventually have no flow. Again.. applying your logic to an engine and oil filter scenerio... An engine designed to use a standard paper pleated media as a filter medium that instead had a ceramic media fitler installed would probably only run untill the residual lube burned off and the engine seized due to lack of lube.. I.E. the oil not making it thru that extremely low micron ceramic filter... again.. because it was a tighter tolerance than spec.. it meets your definition of well made though...

Soundguy

 

[Paddy]

GuglioLS,

Sound Guy is not bashing to hard and I do respect his points of view. he has helped me in many questions over years. My post was more based on that I have tried not to have too high expectations due to the low cost. Certainly it's an oversite. But as a QA guy once told me, if you count all ops for making mistakes and compare it to the QA issues of the Tractor, it seems small

 

[Soundguy]

In all fairness, I take the devil's advocate position on chinese tractors many times.

For the person that absolutely has to have a new tractor on a budget.. there really is no other choice.

As we have seen here in this sub many times.. the dealer seems to be the biggest variable in quality issues. I.E. a good dealer -will- catch all the annoying little problems and correct them before the end owner ever sees them. Thus having a good dealer is very important ( same is true of the big brands by the way... ).

Again.. not bashing the chinese units .. just a comment on a single part.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[greg_g]

But as a QA guy once told me, if you count all ops for making mistakes and compare it to the QA issues of the Tractor, it seems small

There's a huge segment of the Chinese workforce steeped in the eastern tradition of Honor and Shame. Many Chinese workers still feel it would bring dishonor and shame to his superior if he were to identify a problem on the assembly line. And so on up the food chain. As a result, an obvious bad part or process goes out the door - unreported.

I remember American consumers back in the 1960s would look at the bottom of products in the store. If it said "Made in Japan ", it was often quickly returned to the shelf. The power of ecomomics in Japan has since overcome tradition, since QA/QC on most imported Japanese goods has demonstrably improved. The Koreans aren't too far behind.

But as in Japan and Korea, economic forces will eventually alter the Honor and Shame concept as a Chinese workplace phenomenon. It takes a downward-driven initiative, but eventually a new workplace tradition of Pride in Workmanship will prevail over Honor and Shame.

//greg//

 

[Paddy]

Greg,

I agree. I worked to help start up a plant making ceramic material in Thailand. It just wasn't in their nature to ID a problem. I was scheduled to visit the plant for 3 weeks to test samples as they came out of the kiln. I called a week before to confirm the samples were going to be on time. they said sure, please come. When I arrived, nothing was remotely ready. I stayed a few days and returned home. I now am assisting set up a plant in India. I've leaned my leason and constantly keep checking on progress and asure them bad news needs reported

 

[thingy]

As far as dealers,I think we need to point out things like this,if you order one of them crate tractors than you are on your own,but if a company wants to start importing a thing and selling it for profit,than there is certain things they should do,before selling it,,[making sure it works,would be one],or they run the risk of being bad mouthed,[rightfully so],and going out of bussiness.
Now mine is a nortrac jinma,they say they run it in,change fluids,tighten things,etc,,and I believe for the most part,they do,,,but I changed my hydro oil at about 50 hours or so and it looked like a lite thick chocolote milk,so I think they missed that in my perticular case any ways,farmpro has had numerious complants,,there is one now over on nyctoa,so numourous that I'm pretty sure it has caused them to loose sales,and thats the way its supposed to work,,,making sure grease fittings take grease should be one of those things thats checked before selling,,,,,now,we are talking chinese here,,but I bet there was at least one john deere and one kaboto sold this year that at least one grease fitting on it wouldn't take grease,,,but in their case,there is probably a much better chance that maybe that fitting was the only thing that wasn't checked at factory,,,in these chinese tractors,,that ain't the case,,,all points that can be checked by dealer,need to be checked by dealer.
Soundguy has a function here,he points out things that some of us won't,,we need to give him somekinda title,even though he never has owned a chinese tractor and never will,he worrys an awfull lot about them,and us,,so we need to give him a title so when he comes on the chinese boards to give us advise and his opinions,he could be addressed properly,,,any ideas? thingy

 

[Paddy]

Thingy,

I'm betting SoundGuy will go China some day for one of his fleat! It will start out as a knock around tractor but soon it will grow on him. Since these China tractors are "old school", he think he would be a good fit.

As far as his title, I'm thinking SoundGuy works

 

[thingy]

Thats pretty good,,once we get all the ideas in,we could ask mr. soundguy which one he fancies the best,cause we don't want to run him off,he is a true light in a dreary cloudy sky,a voice of honest opinions and sayer of wise things,,,,thingy