Grading Tips on using a blade or box blade on rough ground

[jenkinsph]

When I hear people describe problems like this, it usually means they are not floating the box blade. You should make sure the 3-pt hitch is dropped all the way down so the implement is floating. That way it stays in constant contact with the ground no matter what your wheels are doing (within reason of course).

To be honest, I don't understand how your box is going to dig a rut when the rear wheels enter a rut, because the 3-pt doesn't have downforce. It cannot drag the box down because the 3-pt cannot exert downforce.

Now if you'r driving around with the box blade slightly elevated, then it will contact the ground and float when you enter a dip with the wheels. But that's why I say to make sure the box is floating all the time. Keep it in contact with the ground and use toplink length to change how aggressively it digs or smooths.

As long as the box can float, it's going to be working under the action of gravity and be able to stay in fairly even contact with the ground no matter what the wheels are doing. From there, top link length tweaks the angle of attack.

I would agree that your method would help smooth out the bumps and dips to a degree. So it would help smooth out many problem areas and make them better than they were.

For accurate grading (cut and fill) you need to control the height of the box blade cutting edge on a constant basis. Simply dragging the box blade in full contact with the ground in float will not accomplish filling to the proper height.

For the last few years I have used my box blade rear gate unpinned which allows it to cut more aggressively. That saves me a lot of time when cutting down high spots. Once you get proficient at controlling the box blade height it seems to work better to me.

In the picture below the water flows from the background to the foreground with a .250% slope, the field is level from left to right. The grading work measured by the NRCS is within +/- .5 inch. I felt pretty good about it for the first job doing field leveling.

 

[s219]

For accurate grading (cut and fill) you need to control the height of the box blade cutting edge on a constant basis. Simply dragging the box blade in full contact with the ground in float will not accomplish filling to the proper height.

My experience has been that there is no good way to control height because there is nothing to prevent the box from riding up except gravity. But it would then be a function of how heavy the box is, and it's entirely possible the physics of my 450# 60" box are different than someone's bigger/heavier box.

When I want to distribute material, it means lengthening the top link so that the rear cutting edges are feathered. Any material that collects in the box will be spread behind the box smoothly, raising the grade. There are angles that will empty the box, and there are angles that will maintain material height in the box (while still spreading behind -- so that means the box is scooping or collecting as much as it's spreading). Subtle changes in the top link make a world of difference.

If I want to dig, the top link is shortened so the rear cutter bites in (and the rippers in extreme cases). That means the box will fill with material and eventually start to overflow.

I guess I always come back to the reason the box blade was invented, and that was to be a device that could remove material from high spots, collect it in the box, and then redistribute/drop the material into low spots. However you can accomplish that is good, but I find having the box floating on the ground and using top link length to tune behavior gives the most consistent and repeatable results. Anytime I have attempted to operate with the box raised up, results become inconsistent and less reliable, just as the OP has described. Through trial and error, I have found that the more independent I can make box height from what the wheels are doing, the better.

 

[TripleR]

I have equipment similar to jenkinsph (he played a role in me going with a heavier scraper) and use the same method, having a heavy scraper with hydraulic top-link helps. My brother and father however got the same results using the same techniques with manual top-link and lighter loader though it took more passes. They "float" the scraper on the finish pass with the top-link extended.

My dad used his old Ford tractor and cheap box scraper for years preparing home sites

I guess we just tend to use what works best for us and as I've mentioned, it took me a long time to even approach mediocrity and still have a long way to go.

 

[dadster4]

When I hear people describe problems like this, it usually means they are not floating the box blade. You should make sure the 3-pt hitch is dropped all the way down so the implement is floating. That way it stays in constant contact with the ground no matter what your wheels are doing (within reason of course).

To be honest, I don't understand how your box is going to dig a rut when the rear wheels enter a rut, because the 3-pt doesn't have downforce. It cannot drag the box down because the 3-pt cannot exert downforce.

Now if you'r driving around with the box blade slightly elevated, then it will contact the ground and float when you enter a dip with the wheels. But that's why I say to make sure the box is floating all the time. Keep it in contact with the ground and use toplink length to change how aggressively it digs or smooths.

As long as the box can float, it's going to be working under the action of gravity and be able to stay in fairly even contact with the ground no matter what the wheels are doing. From there, top link length tweaks the angle of attack.

Very well said. I just wanted to add that he should set his scarifiers as deep as he can the first couple times through. This goes a long way towards fixing the causes of those humps and bumps.

 

[Ivan49]

My experience has been that there is no good way to control height because there is nothing to prevent the box from riding up except gravity. But it would then be a function of how heavy the box is, and it's entirely possible the physics of my 450# 60" box are different than someone's bigger/heavier box.

When I want to distribute material, it means lengthening the top link so that the rear cutting edges are feathered. Any material that collects in the box will be spread behind the box smoothly, raising the grade. There are angles that will empty the box, and there are angles that will maintain material height in the box (while still spreading behind -- so that means the box is scooping or collecting as much as it's spreading). Subtle changes in the top link make a world of difference.

If I want to dig, the top link is shortened so the rear cutter bites in (and the rippers in extreme cases). That means the box will fill with material and eventually start to overflow.

I guess I always come back to the reason the box blade was invented, and that was to be a device that could remove material from high spots, collect it in the box, and then redistribute/drop the material into low spots. However you can accomplish that is good, but I find having the box floating on the ground and using top link length to tune behavior gives the most consistent and repeatable results. Anytime I have attempted to operate with the box raised up, results become inconsistent and less reliable, just as the OP has described. Through trial and error, I have found that the more independent I can make box height from what the wheels are doing, the better.

There sure is it is called draft control

 

[bigdeano]

If you're trying to even out dips and bumps with a rear blade you just have to go very slow so you can move the blade up and down as needed to make a level road. If the blade was in front of the rear wheels it would work like a road grader and level the bumps out automatically. I made a 6" high blade that goes under my tractor and hooks to the 3ph lower arms. It works much better for leveling. My 3ph has down force though.

 

[Ivan49]

I made a leveling item like they use in the horse arenas. It is made with 2 grader blade cutting edges bent in a V shape. You set the front on down so it digs with you top link and the slower you go the better it works. I filled in potholes 6 inches deep in one pass using it. I bought a box blade last fall with my tractor but have not got to use it much yet. I have over a mile of trails to maintain thru my land and most have not been touched in the last 20 years. I worked about a 1/4 mile down last fall before the freeze up with the box blade and the deeper holes I used the loader bucket to fill them first. I am ready to go play as soon as the weather changes

 

[jenkinsph]

My experience has been that there is no good way to control height because there is nothing to prevent the box from riding up except gravity. But it would then be a function of how heavy the box is, and it's entirely possible the physics of my 450# 60" box are different than someone's bigger/heavier box.

When I want to distribute material, it means lengthening the top link so that the rear cutting edges are feathered. Any material that collects in the box will be spread behind the box smoothly, raising the grade. There are angles that will empty the box, and there are angles that will maintain material height in the box (while still spreading behind -- so that means the box is scooping or collecting as much as it's spreading). Subtle changes in the top link make a world of difference.

If I want to dig, the top link is shortened so the rear cutter bites in (and the rippers in extreme cases). That means the box will fill with material and eventually start to overflow.

I guess I always come back to the reason the box blade was invented, and that was to be a device that could remove material from high spots, collect it in the box, and then redistribute/drop the material into low spots. However you can accomplish that is good, but I find having the box floating on the ground and using top link length to tune behavior gives the most consistent and repeatable results. Anytime I have attempted to operate with the box raised up, results become inconsistent and less reliable, just as the OP has described. Through trial and error, I have found that the more independent I can make box height from what the wheels are doing, the better.

If your box blade rides up as you mention you may need to make additional passes till you have the mound shaved to grade. I use a heavy box blade with a hinged back which allows the front blade to cut aggressively, still there are places that require subsequent passes to get to grade.

When you get the box blade edge on grade and approach a low spot you need to maintain that height as you traverse the low spot. With the blade on grade and the depression is lower the dirt in the box is then released on grade until you run out of dirt. It may still require more dirt once this initial dirt has settled though.

Now your method of tilting the blade and riding on the rear edge will allow dirt to pass out of the box and gradually raise the level. But at some point if you need it to be precise you need to control the blade height and shave the dirt on grade in real time. Your method works well for smoothing and averaging out the dirt. I use that method myself where circumstances dictate.

 

[jenkinsph]

I made a leveling item like they use in the horse arenas. It is made with 2 grader blade cutting edges bent in a V shape. You set the front on down so it digs with you top link and the slower you go the better it works. I filled in potholes 6 inches deep in one pass using it. I bought a box blade last fall with my tractor but have not got to use it much yet. I have over a mile of trails to maintain thru my land and most have not been touched in the last 20 years. I worked about a 1/4 mile down last fall before the freeze up with the box blade and the deeper holes I used the loader bucket to fill them first. I am ready to go play as soon as the weather changes

Sounds like a nice implement for smoothing.

I make a distinction between smoothing/averaging and leveling on grade, these are two very different things. For instance in the picture I posted earlier I leveled the field from left to right within +-.5 inches and to maintain that tolerance the field also has to be smooth. The left side of the field was cut down about 2 feet in places and the lower right side was filled about 18 inches. While that was going on I had to change the slope of the field too to prevent the water running off the field too fast. If you make mistakes it is easy to see when watering, the water doesn't lie.

I use a land plane grader scraper often to smooth out bumps and dips. Very good smoothing tool, not really a leveling tool.

 

[jrepp44]

I gave up years ago trying to master the box blade, I now do all my smoothing with a land plane, it works great.