tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels

   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #31  
GDI may have started?? with the Daimler-Benz DB601 inverted V12 engine. Mercedes used the system on one of its sports cars in the 50's and since then numerous others have used it. Its not new but as stated the modern systems with new electronics operate much better.:D :D :D
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #32  
Egon, There are at least three distinct types of ICE used for (small) model airplane engines, the type that make your chainsaw jealous. The glow engine uses a glo plug which enables starting the engine with fuel that used to be castor oil, alcohol, and nitromethane but can be lots of synthetics stuff these days. The glow plug retains enough heat between firings in its exposed coil of heater wire to help ignite each succeeding dose of fuel and air. The compression is way lower than a model airplane diesel.

There are model airplane diesel engines and the ones I have struggled with do not have glow plugs and are true compression ignition. The ones I have seen have a compression adjustment which is essentially a screw you turn to move a piece of metal into or out of the combustion chamber to take up more or less space. The fuel used is not at all like automotive diesel. When I was around these engines the fuel had a high ether content. They aren't the easiest starting engines, especially in winter.

There are also true spark ignition engines in truly small sizes used on model airplanes. Some of these predate a lot of the glow plug engines and were used before my time (yes, while the big rocks were still hot.) Imagine a model airplane with a 8-10 inch propeller spun by an engine with an itsy bitsy standard spark plug. The displacement would have been in the range of about 0.25 to 0.45 cubic inches and the plane would have had to carry batteries to power the points-plug-condenser-ignition coil type arrangement. Never having had or actually operated one of those engines I can't speak from memory about the fuel. I did buy one of the planes that had originally had a spark ignition engine but the engine was missing and I substituted a Testors brand 0.35 cubic inch glow engine after completing flight testing with a 0.01 cubic inch glow engine which turned over 20,000 RPM with about a 3 inch prop (Cox Thimble Drome line.)

Larger flying models sometimes use chain saw motors or even small jet turbines.

Navy "Heavy Fuel" requirements (the Navy doesn't like to use gasoline or other dangerously volatile and explosive fuel on board a super carrier) has spurred the development of diesel engines for use for shipboard based UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.) There is precedent for diesel powered aircraft. Manned diesel aircraft were tried way back when and in the mid 20th century the Germans and Japanese both did extensive diesel aircraft trials.

Do a Google on diesel aircraft or similar and you'll see that diesel aircraft engines, although not mainstream, are not hard to find.

...oh, by the way... weren't the early injected 'Vettes, direct injection into the combustion chamber, like way before the "modern" "external" injection? I'm not positive as I have never been a big fan of Corvettes and didn't track them closely.

Pat
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #33  
hydrovane218 said:
Z-Michihan...
A couple of posts back, you mentioned HP, Torque and RPM's reagarding a Dodge Ram/Hemi...assuming you ment Cummins Diesel??? Anyway, are there not at least a few vehicles in the North American market last or this year now that are running direct injected gas engines? I seem to recall hearing this a few times and thinking 'the times they are a changing'. I just can't recall what models or manufacturers they were.

I don't know how I wrote Hemi, but yes I absolutely meant Cummins turbodiesel (5.9L version, 2006 MY).

There are at least a few cars out now with GDI. The one I know of is the Cadillac with the 3.6L "high feature" V6, but I expect there are others. It looks like GDI is more common on Japanese and European market cars at this time than on US market cars.
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #34  
john_bud said:
Z- the GDI systems actually give huge increases in torque at lower rpms. The HP gains are modest. The torque comes from multiple small injections that allow much higher average cylinder pressures, especially as the piston is down the hole. My thoughts were that the GDI systems either are pure compression ignited or that they only use a spark for starting. Either way, tech is taking over.

jb

My understanding is that GDI systems remain spark ignited in all modes. The compression ratios are typically the same or only slightly higher than other gasoline engines, e.g. 10:1, compared to diesels that run from 16:1 to 25:1.

Wikipedia has a good summary:
Gasoline direct injection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was quite surprised to learn how long GDI has been around! (And I'm going to say "GDI" instead of "GDi" because I could care less about Mitsubishi trademarking such a simple and obvious acronym.)
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #35  
john_bud said:
ccsial, I was replying to "Eric in Hoyt". He stated "You don't get that 350 HP until you're above 6000 RPM." refering to the Cummins. That's way off. I'm sure you agree!

I wasn't commenting on your post at all.

Sorry John, I missed that. If one of my Cummins hit 6000 RPM I would not want to be within 200 feet of it.:)

Tom said: But then again, the torque king is still steam or electricity, 100% of torque at zero movement.

I agree. Electricity is the king of RPM too. If only we had nuclear batteries or a "Mr. Fusion"

Isn't is amzing how these threads wander?
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #36  
[quote/] Isn't is amzing how these threads wander?
[/quote]

Wander? thread wander? Here on TBN? You have got to be kidding!


Hey what about those Packers, eh?
Been hunting lately?

jb
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #37  
If'n I recall it was about 57 that Gm experimented with injection engines, Pat.
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #39  
john_bud said:
Hey what about those Packers, eh?
Been hunting lately? jb

The Packs have had an amazing year. Only two more games...

I hunt a lot around here. Since my BIL passed on I don't hunt in Montana anymore. He had a cabin there.

I go to the Janeville thresheree every year just to watch those steam machines.
 
   / tractor diesels vs. pickup diesels #40  
ccsial said:
I go to the Janeville thresheree every year just to watch those steam machines.

My dad worked with steam tractors when he was a lad working harvest near Duncan, Oklahoma. Pretty high up on the hog, huh? My mom's dad never owned an internal combustion engine in his life. He plowed, pulled stumps, and went to town on two HP.

Pat
 
 
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