Water and electric to 5th wheel

   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #21  
I did mine using a walk-behind trencher that dug down to 4 feet. Laid my water down at 4’, my electrical at 3’, then my data at 18”. I ran 220 power to the RV power box (found at RV parks) with zero issues. RV is a diesel 40’er and uses 50 amps No special wiring is required, just wire approximately and you’re good to go.

Using a backhoe wold be too messy & overkill. The trencher was far better, consistent, dirt was lined up on the side, and made perfect 3” wide kerf. I’d highly recommend that you call around rental yards for one.
 
   / Water and electric to 5th wheel
  • Thread Starter
#22  
We have a lot of rock; have tried trenchers before. Wound a few times with trench hitting rocks, and bouncing like crazy, jerked out of hands.

I did mine using a walk-behind trencher that dug down to 4 feet. Laid my water down at 4’, my electrical at 3’, then my data at 18”. I ran 220 power to the RV power box (found at RV parks) with zero issues. RV is a diesel 40’er and uses 50 amps No special wiring is required, just wire approximately and you’re good to go.

Using a backhoe wold be too messy & overkill. The trencher was far better, consistent, dirt was lined up on the side, and made perfect 3” wide kerf. I’d highly recommend that you call around rental yards for one.
 
   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #23  
I did mine using a walk-behind trencher that dug down to 4 feet. Laid my water down at 4’, my electrical at 3’, then my data at 18”. I ran 220 power to the RV power box (found at RV parks) with zero issues. RV is a diesel 40’er and uses 50 amps No special wiring is required, just wire approximately and you’re good to go.

Using a backhoe wold be too messy & overkill. The trencher was far better, consistent, dirt was lined up on the side, and made perfect 3” wide kerf. I’d highly recommend that you call around rental yards for one.
No RV park is wired for 220V. It is all two circuits of 110v which is confusing to most folks basically because the campers have stickers that say 220v power which is really isn't. If you wired it for 220v then you got lucky and wired it for two individual 110v circuits.

There is a couple of YouTube videos on the correct way of wiring a camper power source (but beware that they might also be some with the wrong way to do it also. I had to go look at my neighbors to verify the correct way to hook the wiring at the circuit breaker and outlet plug when I ran mine just to be sure even after finding a video of it.
 
   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #24  
Gary,

It’s 220, end of story. Take a voltmeter and measure between the two hot wires. You’ll find that they do read 220.

Hot 1 <———110——-> Neutral <———110——->Hot 2

Hot 1 <————————220———————-Hot 2

Ask any electrician.
 
   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #25  
Gary,

It痴 220, end of story. Take a voltmeter and measure between the two hot wires. You値l find that they do read 220.

Hot 1 <覧?10覧-> Neutral <覧?10覧->Hot 2

Hot 1 <覧覧覧覧220覧覧覧?Hot 2

Ask any electrician.
Whatever you think. I have made it plenty clear that the wiring at the circuit breaker is different from 220v circuit, but if someone wants to fry their camper, go for it. There is plenty of info on the internet about how to correctly hook up a 50A circuit for a camper vs for a welding machine.

I wont comment on this again.
 
   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #26  
Whatever you think. I have made it plenty clear that the wiring at the circuit breaker is different from 220v circuit, but if someone wants to fry their camper, go for it. There is plenty of info on the internet about how to correctly hook up a 50A circuit for a camper vs for a welding machine.
I wont comment on this again.
Please provide some factual documentation to back up your assertion as you appear to be dead wrong, a camper uses a STANDARD 50 amp 120/240v 4 wire outlet.
Here is what KOA has to say on the subject:
http://rvservices.koa.com/rvinformation/rvmaintenance/rv-electrical-101.asp said:
RV Electrical 101 - Dennis Gaub
If you own a recreational vehicle that has a 50-amp electrical system and you've pulled into a campground where both 50- and 30-amp service are available, please pick the 50-amp service.
That request accompanies advice from an expert on RV systems, Jim Finch, KOA's assistant vice-president/technical services.
Hooking up a 50-amp vehicle to a 50-amp power pedestal whenever possible will help protect the long-term dependability of appliances in your rig, Finch says. Plus, making the 50-50 match will show consideration for fellow campers, allowing them to get an adequate electrical supply, and boost the reliability of the campground's power system.
"If they've got it (50-amp service), use it," he says.
Sometimes, however, the owner of a 50-amp RV will have to use 30-amp service because that's the only power available at a campground. When that happens, Finch advises trying to "to be good to (the campground) and to yourself, and take it easy on what you use because (with heavy demand) you pull down your own rig and every other rig on that circuit. And, you overload the campground's electrical design.
"So, if you're not plugged into a 50-amp (circuit), you need to realize you can't use everything," he says.
Campers might think that a campground's breakers will fully protect RVs against an electrical overload. But don't count on that, Finch warns.
He explained why:
The breakers for the electrical systems in most campgrounds are designed with a tolerance of 20-percent, plus or minus. (If breakers tripped at exactly 30 amps, they would cost much more perhaps 10 times as much as breakers normally used.)
A 30-amp outlet supplies 3,600 watts (30 amps multiplied by 120 volts).
Therefore, the breaker on that outlet could meet code and still trip anywhere between a total load of 2,880 watts (80 percent of 3,600 watts) and 4,320 watts (120 percent of 3,600 watts).
That generally isn't a problem for 30-amp rigs, which normally have appliances with total power demand well within the limits of breakers on campground outlets, Finch says.
But, it's different when owners of 50-amp rigs hook up to 30-amp outlets, then run a whole bevy of appliances, including power-hungry equipment such as heaters and air conditioners.
That sets up a situation where the breaker on a 30-amp outlet may not trip until the load exceeds 4,000 watts. And, Finch explains, "that's why you'll go into an RV park and a 30-amp plug will be burned up because it isn't designed to carry that kind of wattage."
Campers sometimes misunderstand the relationship between amps and total wattage, according to Finch, and that potentially harms both their rigs and the profitability that campgrounds need to continue operation.

They may think there's a proportionate link between differing amp levels when, in fact, that isn't necessarily so. For example, 20-amp service requires 2,400 watts (20 amps times 120 watts), and 30-amp service needs 1-1/2 times as much power (3,600 watts, or 30 amps times 120 watts). For 50-amp service, however, the potential amount of power used 12,000 watts, or 50 amps times 240 volts represents more than three times as much possible demand as 30-amp service.
Conversely, a 50-amp rig hooked up to a 30-amp outlet is only getting about one-third of the power that the rig may need to run a full complement of appliances.
Finch says it's helpful to think of home wiring, which is designed with the assumption that not all outlets will be in use at the same time, nor will high-voltage appliances be plugged into all sockets simultaneously. The same principle applies to the design of electrical circuits in commercial buildings and campgrounds. And an overload causes the same result in every case a tripped breaker and, possibly, a burned-out plugin.
It complicates matters when a 50-amp rig plugs into 30-amp service designed for perhaps 10-15 units because it's as if three RVs have just joined the circuit, he says.
Ultimately, Finch asks owners of 50-amp rigs to consider the economics. They may be saving a few dollars per night by plugging into 30-amp service. But the continued strain on an air conditioner or microwave, especially when either struggles to start running on substandard power, might end up damaging the appliance. And that could bring a costly bill -- $1,000 or more to repair or replace the unit.
More from RV Tech Mag:
https://www.rvtechmag.com/electrical/chapter3.php said:
Okay, now that we know how the breaker panels are normally set up and how the power company sends its power we need to figure out how this relates to our RV. RV's rarely have any 240 volt items in them. Yet, the newer RVs have 50 amp services, which are a 120/240 volt split phase system. Before we look at the 50 amp service let's first look at the 30 amp service

30 Amp RV Service:
A 30 amp RV service is really just a glorified 120 volt single pole outlet. Electrical outlets are labeled with a NEMA code designation. The 30 amp outlet used in an RV application is designated a NEMA TT-30R and the plug is a TT-30P. The TT stands for Travel Trailer so you won't be finding this outlet in any residential environment. The P and R stand for Plug and Receptacle respectively. This is a 3 prong plug that consists of a 120 volt hot wire, a neutral wire, and a safety ground wire. The 30 amp RV receptacles do not use GFCI protection. If you have an older or smaller RV you will have a single pole 30 amp breaker panel where everything is on one phase. There's no need to split breakers on a 30 amp panel because there is only L1 and 120 volts present. If you need to plug in at a location where there is no 30 amp RV style outlet you can buy an adaptor at any RV dealer that will adapt your 30 amp RV plug to a standard 15 or 20 amp duplex receptacle. This is the way that RVs were made for many years but with today's modern amenities it has become necessary to increase the power supply to the newer coaches. Keep in mind that 30 amps times 120 volts equals 3,600 watts and that is how much "stuff" you can run.

50 Amp RV Service:
To facilitate the larger loads placed upon the newer RVs the 50 amp service was brought out. Whereas the 30 amp service was a 120 volt service yielding 3,600 watts of power, the 50 amp service is a 120/240 split phase service. The split phase service means you have two 120 volt 50 amp poles, which gives you a total of up to 12,000 watts. So the perceived increase from 30 to 50 doesn't sound like very much but the real increase from 3,600 to 12,000 puts it into a more realistic perspective. Keep in mind that this assumes that you can utilize both of the two 50 amp poles effectively by balancing your load. If all of your loads are on one side of the panel you'll only be using one 50 amp pole, which means that you can only get 6,000 watts. So, it is important to split your loads and balance them between both phases on the breaker panel in order to get maximum capacity.
Very rarely will an RV have any 240 volt loads. Some RVs may have 240 volt stackable clothes driers or an electric heating element of some sort but it's rare. Still, the ability to split the load among two poles means that each pole can handle 50 amps. If all of the circuits were placed on a single phase, as in the 30 amp service, then you would need a 100 amp service to provide that same amount of power. That would require some massive wiring to the pedestal and also some very fat and heavy power cords to the RV. 50 amp lets you get by with a smaller #6 gauge wire. But what happens when you don't have a 50 amp service available?

http://www.myrv.us/electric/ said:
This 50-amp service has 4 wires with two 120-volt HOT feeds. It is a misconception that this 50-amp RV service is something special. This service is a STANDARD 120/240 50-amp 3 pole with 4 prongs used for numerous applications.
From this common service we can draw 120 or 240 volts. Each leg is 50 amps @ 120 volts. 50-amp X 120-volt = 6000 watts. But since there are 2 HOT 120-volt legs at 6000 + 6000 = 12,000 watts to use in the RV or 50-amp X 240-volt = 12,000 watts when used as a 240-volt service.

Almost ALL 50-amp wired RV's use both sides of the service separately as 120 volt on each leg. Only a few mostly high-end coaches utilize the 240-volt from this same service.

The 50-amp 3-pole 4-wire service is superior to the 30-amp service because of the total amperage available.

30-amp 120-volt service = 3,600 watts
50-amp 120/240-volt service = 12,000 watts

The half round or U is the ground the one directly below it is the WHITE or neutral and the other two black wires are 180 degrees out of phase with each other are the HOT 120-volt. In reality you have TWO 120 volt split service going into your RV.
50AMP1-4.jpg 50AMP2-4.jpg


50-amp Double Pole Breaker
X & Y are interchangeable , red and black wires are hot (live) wires , one wire on the X, and the other on the Y. The neutral (white) and the bare ground wire MUST be on there designated connection. I purchased this box at the Home Depot. It is made by Midwest with a DUCK emblem on it.

Shut off the MAIN breaker in the panel. Pull the wires connect all the wires to the outside receptacle or panel first. Insert a double pole 50-amp breaker into your MAIN or sub service box. Connect the red wire to the Y configuration and to one of the screws on the breaker. Connect the black wire to the X and to the other screw on the breaker. The X and Y connections are interchangeable. Connect a white wire to W and to the neutral bar in the service. Connect the ground wire to the G and to the grounding bar in the service.
From the MRV wiring guide:
http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/50-amp%20Service.pdf said:
See also:
http://www.janeandjohn.org/docs/50ampRVoutletInstallation.pdf
50amp outlets? Is it the same as a 220 outlet?
50 Amp shore power

Aaron Z
 

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   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #28  
I should add, whenever my parents visit in their coach (RV lingo) and hook up the power, there’s a gizmo hardwired on board that does a line check to ensure everything is fine on the line on all 4 wires of the 50a before it switches on the power. All automatically.

If it’s anything but, it will refuse to connect the power.
 
   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #29  
I should add, whenever my parents visit in their coach (RV lingo) and hook up the power, there’s a gizmo hardwired on board that does a line check to ensure everything is fine on the line on all 4 wires of the 50a before it switches on the power. All automatically.

If it’s anything but, it will refuse to connect the power.

Not all RV's have that equipment.

AZCLAN answered confirming my posts info.

"The half round or U is the ground the one directly below it is the WHITE or neutral and the other two black wires are 180 degrees out of phase with each other are the HOT 120-volt. In reality you have TWO 120 volt split service going into your RV."
(this is exactly what I have been posting about for several days now and this is not the same as a standard 220/240 volt circuit which has two 120v in single phase)

This quote (bold face) from myrv.us makes no sense at all (true)"Almost ALL 50-amp wired RV's use both sides of the service separately as 120 volt on each leg. (False)Only a few mostly high-end coaches utilize the 240-volt from this same service. There is no way to get 240 from a standard double 120v camper circuit without rewiring the circuit at the breaker. NO campground is going to let you do that. However, I suppose that the RV might have an on board transformer that could take the two 120v circuits input and boost them to 240 to use the power.

Now I broke my self promise not to post on this any more.
 
   / Water and electric to 5th wheel #30  
So I'm confused when you measure with a volt meter on a 220V dryer plug from ground to one "hot" leg you get 120v No??? 50amp RV outlet is no different??? My thinking would be that the "appliance" and or "rv" would utilize the 2 "hots" either separate 120v each or together as 220v?? Obviously I'm no electrician!! :confused:
 
 
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