Water Hydro Project

[GarthH]

We are located beside a large river - about 100 miles upstream there is a major dam that releases water - the low is around 10,000 gallons per second (reported as 50 Cubic Meters per second); high is around 50,000 gps. At our home the river is about 300 yards across, the main current is 25 feet from our shore line.

Our cost this year for power was about $4,500.

I'm trying to figure out whether a hydro project might be worthwhile.

Our government owned hydro company has recently allowed net metering. I have not asked but I think we could earn about $0.07 per KWH.

The Regulators will not allow any diversion of the river but I think I will be able to place things in the river and along the shoreline (crown land up to the high water line). Our fisheries department will want to ensure the fish are not affected. Coast Guard will have some rules about equipment in the river as it is considered navigationable.

The river bank is about 50 feet to nice prairie land (I suppose nice to someone from the Prairies).

My unknowledgeable theory thinks if I could put a turbine in the river either with some type of anchor or attached onto a dock then somehow move the energy to a generator that would produce 120 volts.

Any suggestions?

Anyone know of good reputation suppliers of water hydro equipment - turbines, etc that can walk me the preliminary assessment?

Thank you

Garth

 

[Egon]

If the Bureaucracy doesn't do you in the Spring river ice will!

South Saskatchewan River? Lake Diefenbaker Dam?

 

[GarthH]

Current on both points.

I need to get below the ice - haven't asked the local ice fisherman yet but likely 3 to 4 feet deep. The channel will likely be 25 feet. My hopes is that the turbine would be under water with cabling coming up through the ice.

The Dam is a good thing - we do not get ice jams or the such. Red River is causing all kinds of damage in North Dakota and Manitoba where we have a nice melt happening.

A lot of good energy there.

 

[MrWoodChips]

Our cost this year for power was about $4,500.

I'm trying to figure out whether a hydro project might be worthwhile.

Our government owned hydro company has recently allowed net metering. I have not asked but I think we could earn about $0.07 per KWH.

The Regulators will not allow any diversion of the river but I think I will be able to place things in the river and along the shoreline (crown land up to the high water line). Our fisheries department will want to ensure the fish are not affected. Coast Guard will have some rules about equipment in the river as it is considered navigationable.

The river bank is about 50 feet to nice prairie land (I suppose nice to someone from the Prairies).

My unknowledgeable theory thinks if I could put a turbine in the river either with some type of anchor or attached onto a dock then somehow move the energy to a generator that would produce 120 volts.

You are talking about putting a turbine directly in the river flow?

Electricity and water are a dangerous mix. Were I a local regulatory person, I'd want to be very sure that your installation is safe. What happens if you screw up? After all, you admit that you don't really know much about this. Will you have liability insurance? What happens if a fisherman runs into your private little installation, or drags an anchor across your underwater power line? Don't let someone die because of your wish to pinch a few pennies.

Sorry, but for very good reasons you will run into an incredible amount of red tape here. Those regulatory roadblocks you will face will be put there for your safety as well as the public safety. The $4500 a year in power you hope to replace will be chicken feed.

Or, suppose you do this all without telling the authorities.

John

 

[RonMar]

How fast is the flow along your portion of river? Since you can't divert any flow to build pressure and concentrate the water force, you are left with harvesting the energy from the moving water. kind of like harvesting the energy from the wind. To do this in any quantity, you will need surface area to resist the flow, like large blades on a large wind turbine. Small diameter turbines are not very efficient in this type slow speed application application. It is like the difference between a vertical takeoff jet aircraft and a helicopter. One is considerably more efficient at hovering than the other. Small diameter turbines need a high speed flow to generate any useable speed and torque.

Since it dosn't appear from the photo to be a roaring rapid of a river, I am thinking you are going to need a lot of blade surface area to generate any useable torque to turn a generator. The first thing that comes to mind is a paddle wheel as this would give you the largest blade area for a given depth. A paddle wheel would also allow you to have a long moment arm and make the most torque from a slow moving water flow. Unfortunatly the ice would probably kill it, so it would be a seasonal generator.

Good Luck

 

[GarthH]

You are talking about putting a turbine directly in the river flow?

Electricity and water are a dangerous mix. Were I a local regulatory person, I'd want to be very sure that your installation is safe. What happens if you screw up? After all, you admit that you don't really know much about this. Will you have liability insurance? What happens if a fisherman runs into your private little installation, or drags an anchor across your underwater power line? Don't let someone die because of your wish to pinch a few pennies.

Sorry, but for very good reasons you will run into an incredible amount of red tape here. Those regulatory roadblocks you will face will be put there for your safety as well as the public safety. The $4500 a year in power you hope to replace will be chicken feed.

Or, suppose you do this all without telling the authorities.

John

Valid points John. Not my desire to cause anything out of the ordinary. That is why I ask.

I hoping these great minds can help with the idea.

Not very much traffic in the river - I think I saw a couple boats over the past several years and nothing even close to our shore line. Never the less, I know I will not do anything unsafe. Maybe what is brought out of the water is like a drive shaft in a huge jacket. Maybe the turbine is put under a dock or something?

Garth

 

[Redneck in training]

Current on both points.

I need to get below the ice - haven't asked the local ice fisherman yet but likely 3 to 4 feet deep. The channel will likely be 25 feet. My hopes is that the turbine would be under water with cabling coming up through the ice.

The Dam is a good thing - we do not get ice jams or the such. Red River is causing all kinds of damage in North Dakota and Manitoba where we have a nice melt happening.

A lot of good energy there.

Google Kaplan turbine. If I do it I would place the turbine on a boat anchored in the river. That way the generator will be in dry place. Instead of controling speed of the trubine I would let it freewheel and I would use an inverter to get 60Hz. It would take care of the synchronizing, power delivery control as well as disconnect when the power grid goes down.

Here are few equations to get an idea how big it should be.

The energy available from kinetic systems can be expressed as:
ｷ P = Cp x 0.5 x ρ x A x Vｳ
where:
Cp is the turbine coefficient of performance
P = the power generated (in watts)
ρ = the density of the water (water is 1000 kg/mｳ)
A = the sweep area of the turbine (in mｲ)
Vｳ = the velocity of the flow cubed (i.e. V x V x V)
Relative to an open turbine in free stream, shrouded turbines are capable of efficiencies as much as 3 to 4 times the power of the same turbine in open flow.

 

[Egon]

You could lay about a quarter mile pipe in the river and connect it to a pelton wheel back on dry land. Course you gotta have elevation difference between the pelton wheel and pipe inlet.

 

[WVBill]

They recently installed a power turbine in the East River of New York City.

See if this link will give you some info you could use:
NYC Successfully Installs Tidal-Power Turbine in East River

Here's a link to the company that made the turbine
GCK Technology

 

[Tig]

I recently had the environment people over so I could beg for permission to put a 4' porch on river side of my place when I renovate my home. It would be 150' from the river but slightly less than 50' from the 1 in 100 year flood plain. While he was here he mentioned that by the rules, docks can not be left in the water over the winter. He was kind enough to ignore my dock and boat lift while using the neighbor as an example. The cost of getting permission to generate hydro from a public waterway around here would kill any dreams of saving money.