Tractor Sizing What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce.

[slowzuki]

Oh I should have looked, you're on the wet side of washington.

That's probably true for old growth forest but you should see some of the re-planted stuff. Between the down trees, fast growing existing trees, and dense underbrush you can't even see more than about 10 feet.

 

[arrow]

The original op mentioned "efficiency" The question begs as to how much wood is going to be harvested. The fact that he is doing it part time, means he needs more "efficiency" to produce for the narrow time frame that he is participating in the endeavor. I would say that if you are only producing 6 to 8 cord per year, you are fine with what you have. If you plan to log all 60 acres, it is wiser to get something larger. I have a 20 hp 4wd cut that I have used to harvest about 35 acres over 35 years. I make about 6 cords per year for firewood. I think it rather a pain to log more than a quarter mile from the landing with this size tractor. If I had to go further, I would want at least a 4000# tractor before fel, loaded tires and winch weights are added as I would want to take the entire tree in one shot. Presently a 60' 20"dbh oak takes 3 trips for my tractor but I am never too far from the landing. I do not know how much wood you plan to harvest but I am thinking an old skidder is over kill. Used skidders, especially the smaller ones such as the JD 340 and 440, are beat to crap mostly and as a result, can be costly to keep in good repair. Also, they can be just as unsafe if one does not know what they are doing. I have seen several on their sides in my logging days and one poor guy who became a paraplegic when his turned over. Most of these incidents happened when the hitch was too large for "efficiency and "production" sake or the turn being too long making the operator hustle. I know a used skidder for 15 to 20K sounds enticing for the amount of machinery you are getting but if you get stuck in the woods because of a spent clutch or stripped gears or a broken axle, you've just added at least another 5 to 10k to your purchase price. Believe me all of this can happen with a used skidder as hardly anything is cheap to fix on a skidder..

 

[EddieWalker]

In my opinion,you either need a variety of machines to do the job, or one machine that will do all of it. If money wasn't an option, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. For me, I chose one machine that I feel does it all. Obviously, it's not as good as a specialized machine for each aspect of clearing land, removing debris and shaping the dirt. But it does it all, and it does a fair job of it.

I have a full sized, loader backhoe. Mine is a New Holland 555E 2 wheel drive, open cab. In hindsite, years of experience and thousands of hours doing this, I would have bought different if I could do it over again.

I want a cab, I want 4x4, and extenda hoe and a 4 in 1 bucket. More HP would be nice too!!!

All that is more money, and I bought mine for $20,000 with around 1,500 hours on it. With what I've put into it, and for those days it was too muddy to run because 2 wheel drive doesn't work in the mud, I should have spent $30,000 and waited until I had that much money to spend.

The biggest modification that I've made is to change my loader bucket to a Universal Quick Attach so I can take off the bucket and put on my grapple. Just being able to do this has saved me thousands of hours in time it takes to clear up debris and get it to the burn pile!!!! Truly one of the best things ever invented.

I can take out any sized tree, stump and all. I can either carry that tree, or parts of it with my grapple. You still need a chainsaw to cut off what you don't want, or get it down to 4,000 pounds so you can pick it up, but that doesn't happen very often in my woods. I also drag them with a chain when it's a tight trail and I just want to get them to the burn pile. Once at the burn pile, I take off the chain, then pick them up with the grapple and put them on the burn pile without any dirt on them. It makes for a much cleaner, better burn when there isn't any dirt in the pile.

Eddie

 

[crazyal]

That 555E would be almost worthless in the hills of Vermont. If I can get my 580k close to where I'm working it's great but the ground around here is too uneven, too soft, and too hilly.

The only time I was successful using my 580k in the woods was when I clearing a lot to build on. Because I was able to use the dozer to level the ground and pull the BH through soft spots it worked well. Now I just keep it at the landing and when I skid the logs out with my Kubota I use the Case to lift them up so I don't have to bend over to buck them up. Nice looking land BTW.

 

[Surgeon]

I have looked around at the old skidders. They are tempting and I think that I can probably get a reasonable deal on one. My problem is that unlike many of the people here I cannot fix my more complex equipment and end up paying someone to do it. I try to by as good as equipment as I can afford new with a waranty and then take good care of it. I tend to have one good piece of equipment and hang onto it forever unless I outgrow it. My lawnmower and garden tractor are both over thirty years old. I don't want to get rid of my MF1428 and if I still lived in south with flat pine lots I would probably make do. Here in the deep snow, mud and hills I need to upgrade but since I know I will be living with this choice for possibly the rest of my life I am agonizing over the choice. Not that the sales guys are making it easier! Looked at a M7040 yesterday. What a beast but overkill and I would blow my budget in terms of a winch and later grapple.

 

[Martian]

I have looked around at the old skidders. They are tempting and I think that I can probably get a reasonable deal on one. My problem is that unlike many of the people here I cannot fix my more complex equipment and end up paying someone to do it. I try to by as good as equipment as I can afford new with a waranty and then take good care of it. I tend to have one good piece of equipment and hang onto it forever unless I outgrow it. My lawnmower and garden tractor are both over thirty years old. I don't want to get rid of my MF1428 and if I still lived in south with flat pine lots I would probably make do. Here in the deep snow, mud and hills I need to upgrade but since I know I will be living with this choice for possibly the rest of my life I am agonizing over the choice. Not that the sales guys are making it easier! Looked at a M7040 yesterday. What a beast but overkill and I would blow my budget in terms of a winch and later grapple.

I would agree. I would want a new machine of I had the budget. Have you looked at a JD 5075E? Nice machine. Probably be out of your budget as well though. Would you want a hydrostatic because I think a 4720 would suit your needs well too properly equipped and it won't be as much $$$$.

 

[arrow]

I have looked around at the old skidders. They are tempting and I think that I can probably get a reasonable deal on one. My problem is that unlike many of the people here I cannot fix my more complex equipment and end up paying someone to do it. I try to by as good as equipment as I can afford new with a waranty and then take good care of it. I tend to have one good piece of equipment and hang onto it forever unless I outgrow it. My lawnmower and garden tractor are both over thirty years old. I don't want to get rid of my MF1428 and if I still lived in south with flat pine lots I would probably make do. Here in the deep snow, mud and hills I need to upgrade but since I know I will be living with this choice for possibly the rest of my life I am agonizing over the choice. Not that the sales guys are making it easier! Looked at a M7040 yesterday. What a beast but overkill and I would blow my budget in terms of a winch and later grapple.

I cannot recommend enough that you do not invest in a used skidder. Here are the reasons. 1. fixing one will cost alot when it breaks. 2. If it breaks down in the woods, what do you have to pull it out? A small skidder will weigh between about12 to 14000#'s with unloaded tires and no chains. 3. You cannot fix one yourself. 4.They are ungainly in the woods and work best in logging roads or pathways. 5. Most have been beat to crap. Check out the 5000 utility tractor series from say Kubota or John Deere. The larger, articulated Landini's are nice but these will also bankrupt you. When I was working, we had 3 skidders. We needed 3 as one was seemingly always down and the other to pull out the other one that was stuck or broken in the woods. A good deal on one should be the scariest purchase. A decent used one should cost between 30 to 40 K but that does not take into account the other Murphy laws.

 

[Carykong]

No matter how careful you are. Logging will put plenty of dings and scratches in your tractor. Like the other posters have suggested if you restrict your skidding to logs under 20 inches in diameter with lengths 10 feet and under, you don't need lots of HP. Traction and agility will serve you well. I logged my 10 acre lot with my old 1952 CASE VAC,15 HP, tricycle,ag tires. Rear tire width was adjusted to just under 5 feet. My lot was level,so if you are dealing with hills,you will need a skidding cable/winch,too. good luck.

 

[Surgeon]

I looked at the JD 5075e with a 553 loader and got a quote of $33,500. I think they are reasonable tractors. I can get a similar JD 5055e for about $4000 less. The problem with both is the drive shaft hanging down underneath where it seems like an easy target for a wayward stump. I am also a little worried about the dry clutch syncro shuttle.

 

[Arky217]

I am logging about 60 acres in my spare time. My plan is to keep this tractor for a long time (will it to my children long). The property is fairly to very wet otherwise typical New England woods. Most of what I pull is a mix of soft and hardwoods (max DBH of 20 inches) to be milled for my restoring my barns, firewood and timber management. I have a MF1428v (28 hp hydro) with R4 tires with rear chains, FEL and a skidding plate that does an admirable job for what it is but I know I need something bigger for both safety and efficiency. I have been looking at all the colors for 6 months and think I have done my homework in terms of research. One of the reasons I have not pulled the trigger is that I am not confident that I know what I need. I do need a FEL for loader work around the barn and to move snow and therefore would like a shuttle shift or Hydro. I do need 4WD/MFWD given snow removal and how wet the property is.
SO..here are my questions:
What are people using in the woods?
What wheelbase?
What HP?
What weight?
R1, R1W, R4 with chains?
Metal fenders only or will a fiberglass tolerate the loose chain thwack.
Exposed drive shafts, hydraulic lines and diesel tanks need to be up-armored?
One of the tractors has only three reverse gears. Is that a problem?
I am buying a winch. How does that figure into any of the above?
I have too small a tractor but can I get too big a tractor?
I need the input from those of you in the know.
If there is something I am completely forgetting please tell me.
If some of these are idiotic concerns feel free to call me on it.
My deadline is December 31st as I have been threatened with marital counseling ("Will you just buy the **** tractor already").
I will let you know what I buy and of course I know I am required to post pictures.
Thanks in advance. -R

This method may not be practical if your woods are very hilly and/or the snow is deep, but it worked well for me.

I didn't even have a tractor yet when I logged and milled the trees for the house I built, but I did have a 4WD ATV with mudder tires.

So I built an extendable log arch. It was light enough so that I could push it by hand over the log, but sturdy enough to pick a 24"x17' log entirely off the ground.

I could get into such tight places that I hardly ever had to clear out any paths. With the log suspended, it stayed clean from mud and the ATV could whisk it to the mill fairly quickly.

This method may work in moderately hilly areas also if used in combo with something like a Lewis chain saw winch to get the log to fairly level ground before hauling.